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[1. Roll Call]
IS APRIL 24TH, UH, 2023.I'D LIKE TO CALL TOWARD THE MUNICIPAL MUNICIPAL FIRING POLICE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD TO MEET ROLL CALL SERGEANT TRINA DORSEY.
OKAY, MR. CHAIRMAN, WE HAVE A QUORUM.
THE NEXT ITEM IS, I'D LIKE TO GIVE THIS OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
MOVING ON TO ITEM NUMBER THREE, CONSIDER A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO READ IT INTO THE RECORD? YES.
UH, FIRE CHIEF IS REQUESTING THAT THE BOARD APPROVED THE REHIRE FIREFIGHTER CLARENCE GARNER.
MR. R GRONER RESIGNED APRIL 9TH, 2022.
FOR PERSONAL REASON, HE HAS RESOLVED THESE MATTERS OF FIGHTS HE REHIRED.
WE ALSO HAVE, UM, ANOTHER ITEM.
HUH? WHICH ITEM WILL THAT BE? WHICH ITEM BE? IT'S GONNA BE ITEM NUMBER TWO.
NO, HE'S ASKING, UM, FOR THE REHIRE.
WHAT NUMBER DO YOU WANT TO PUT? OH, WHERE, WHERE DO YOU WANT TO PUT IT? PUT IT OUT ON, PUT IT ON 11 B OR OKAY.
WE ALSO HAVE ANOTHER ITEM THAT WE'D LIKE TO ADD AT THE SAME TIME.
UH, IT WOULD BE PROPOSED NUMBER, ITEM 13, AND THAT IS TO POSTPONE THE HEARING, UM, THAT WE HAVE SCHEDULED FOR TOMORROW BASED UPON A PERCEIVED SETTLEMENT THAT WE, WE MAY BELIEVE THAT THAT WOULD HAPPEN.
ONCE WE HAVE THAT SIGNED SETTLEMENT, WE WOULD, UH, THEN CANCEL IT, BUT WE'RE GONNA POSTPONE IT AT THIS TIME.
SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION FOR ITEM NUMBER 13 TO BE, TO POSTPONE THE HEARING THAT WAS ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED ON TOMORROW'S DATE.
AND THE NUMBER 12, THE REHIRE.
WELL, YEAH, I'D LIKE WE, UM, I'D LIKE FOR US TO ADD THIS TO THE AGENDA.
SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT BOTH ITEMS NUMBER 12 AND 13 BE ADDED TO THE AGENDA.
YOU NEED TO APPROVE THE AMENDED AGENDA.
[2. Consider Motion to Approve Agenda]
GOING BACK TO ITEM NUMBER TWO, I'D LIKE TO, AT THIS TIME, APPROVE THE AMENDED AGENDA.UM, ALL IN FAVOR? I NEED A SECOND.
MOVING ON TO ITEM NUMBER THREE.
[3. Consider Motion to Approve Minutes from March 27, 2023, regular and March 28, 2023, special meetings]
CONSIDER A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM MARCH 27TH, 2023 AND THE MARCH 28TH MEETING, THE SPECIAL MEETING.WE DON'T HAVE THE MEETING, UH, MINUTES TO THE MARCH 28TH MEETING.
WE DON'T HAVE THE MINUTES TO THAT.
SO AT THIS TIME, WE WOULD ONLY APPROVE THE MARCH 27TH.
WE HAVE A, UH, DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND.
[4. Consider Motion(s) to Approve or Reject Personnel Action Forms]
NUMBER FOUR, CONSIDER A MOTION TO APPROVE OR REJECT THE PERSONNEL ACTION FORMS. UM, WE HAVE SOME FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, NOTHING FROM THE POLICE.I MAKE A MOTION WE APPROVES FROM THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE RECEIVED PERSONNEL ACTION FORMS. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I SECOND.
[5. Consider Motion(s) to Approve or Reject Applications]
FIVE, CONSIDER A MOTION TO APPROVE OR REJECT APPLICATIONS.WE HAVE THE APPLICATIONS HERE.
SO WE RE WE RECEIVED, UH, AN APPLICATION FROM RONNIE STEELY FOR DEPUTY CHIEF TEST LAST MONTH.
HE PO IT WAS POSTMARKED BEFORE THE DEADLINE.
WE APPROVE HIS APPLICATION FOR DEPUTY CHIEF AND ASKED THAT HIS NAME BE ADD TO THE ROLL CALL.
IS THAT THE ONLY APPLICATION HERE? THAT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT WE RECEIVED BY MR. OKAY.
SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND, UH, PRESS ALL IN FAVOR.
[6. Consider Motion(s) to Approve or Reject Examination Results]
TO ITEM NUMBER SIX.CONSIDER A MOTION TO APPROVE REJECT EXAMINATION RESULTS.
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OKAY.EXAMINATION APPROVAL, RESULT APPROVAL.
UM, LET'S SEE, THAT WAS, YES, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, UH, I MEAN, UH, POLICE DEPARTMENT.
UH, DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE EXAMINATION? NO.
WE HAVE A WHERE? ORDER? WE HAVE A MOTION.
YOU HAVE A SECOND? PARDON? HERE? YEAH, I HAVE IT RIGHT HERE.
WHO? WAIT, YOU MOTION? NO, NO.
BY WHOM DO SECOND? IT WAS SECOND BY DOGS.
UM, SO A MOTION BY PRESS A SECOND BY TRINA.
[7. Consider Request to Accept a Transfer Score for Police Communication Officer I from Eunice Municipal Fire and Police Civil Service Board.]
ON TO ITEM NUMBER SEVEN IS TO CONSIDER A REQUEST TO ACCEPT A TRANSFER SCORE FOR POLICE COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER ONE FROM EUNICE MUNICIPAL FIRE AND POLICE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD.IS THAT THIS? NO, I DON'T THINK SO.
NO, THAT'S, YES, THAT'S THE KNIFE.
DO YOU HAVE THIS, THIS IS ONE FAVOR.
DO YOU HAVE THE, THE, UM, THE TEST SCORE? MS. BREWER? ONE SECOND.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THESE REQUESTS.
WELL, DOES SHE, MY QUESTION IS, WE DON'T HAVE THE, WE DON'T HAVE, YOU DON'T HAVE THE TEST? I DON'T HAVE THE TEST SCORE.
THAT'S WHAT THAT WAS FOR AN EXAM.
WELL, NO, YOU DON'T MAKE A REQUEST FOR AN EXAM.
YEAH, NO, LOOK, JUST MAKING A REQUEST.
SO WHAT I SAID ON ITEM NUMBER SIX, Y'ALL APPROVED EXAMINATION RESULTS, BUT THE ONLY EXAMINATION RESULT WAS THE SCORE FROM EUNICE.
SO Y'ALL ESSENTIALLY DID SIX AND SEVEN AT THE SAME TIME.
WE JUST DIDN'T ACCEPT IT AS A TRANSFER SCORE.
BUT DO WE NEED TO CALL FOR A POLICE CADET? YEAH, THESE ARE JUST REQUESTS.
NO, Y'ALL ARE TALKING ABOUT ONE, TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
ONE, WE HAD A MOTION TO APPROVE THE EXAMINATION SCORE, BUT THE EXAMINATION, WHICH, UH, SCORE THAT WE'RE APPROVING IS A TRANSFER SCORE.
WHAT POSITION? IT'S FOR COMMUNICATIONS ONE, CORRECT.
JOHN, IS YOUR MIC ON? IS YOUR MIC ON? YEAH, I JUST AIN'T SPEAKING IN IT.
WELL, I MAKE A MOTION WHEN WE APPROVE HER TEST SCORES AND ADD HER TO THE WHAT, WHAT'S SHE WELL, WE'RE GONNA ACCEPT HER TRANSFER TEST SCORES AND ADD HER TO THE, TO THE ROLL CALL.
RESTATE YOUR MOTION ONE MORE TIME FOR ME.
WE ACCEPT HER TEST SCORES, TRANSFER SCORES, AND ADD HER TO THE ROLL.
CALL FOR FIRE POLICE COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER.
DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND BY MS. DORSEY.
AT THIS TIME, I'D LIKE TO, UM, OPEN UP THE MEETING FOR
[8. Conduct Public Hearing regarding the following Class Specifications in Fire Department: Fire Inspector 1, Fire Investigator, Fire Safety Officer, Hazardous Materials Officer, Training Officer]
PUBLIC.WELL OPEN UP THE MEETING FOR A PUBLIC HEARING REGARDING THE FOLLOWING CLASS SPECIFICATION, FIRE DEPARTMENT AND FIRE INSPECTOR, FIRE INVESTIGATOR, FIRE SAFETY OFFICER, HAZARDOUS MATERIAL OFFICER AND TRAINING OFFICER.
AT THIS TIME, UM, IF THERE ARE ANY PUBLIC, WHAT, WHICH, WHAT I WOULD DO, JUST TO MAKE A CLEAR RECORD, I'D HAVE A MOTION TO OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING.
I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION AT THIS TIME TO OPEN UP A PUBLIC HEARING.
BUT THIS TIME, IF THERE'S ANYBODY WHO'D LIKE TO SPEAK ON THE MATTER, UM, I'LL RESTATE IT.
UM, REGARDING THE FOLLOWING CLASSIFICATION IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, FIRE INSPECTOR, FIRE INVESTIGATOR, FIRE SAFETY OFFICER, UH, HAZARDOUS MATERIAL, HAZARDOUS MATERIAL OFFICER AND TRAINING OFFICER.
DO I HAVE ANY COMMENT AT THIS TIME? ALL RIGHT.
I WILL CLOSE THE, THE PUBLIC HEARING FIRST.
MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
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I'LL MAKE A MOTION.I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE ALL PUBLIC HEARING SPECIFICATIONS FOR INSPECTOR ONE, FIRE INVESTIGATOR, FIRE SAFETY OFFICER, HAZMAT OFFICER, AND TRAINING OFFICER.
SO, FOR CLARITY, ARE YOU MAKING A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CHANGES CHANGES TO THE CLASS SPECIFICATION? THAT'S RIGHT.
ALL, UH, SECONDED MY PRESS ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
B, BECAUSE THAT WAS ANOTHER OPTION.
GOING ON TO ITEM NUMBER, UH, NINE IS TO CONSIDER A MOTION TO CALL FOR EXAMINATIONS IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT INCLUDE INCLUDING FIRE.
SINCE WE, THAT WAS ALTERNATIVE, EITHER MOTION TO APPROVE OR REJECT.
[9. Consider Motion to Call for Examinations in Fire Department, including Fire Inspector 1, Fire Investigator, Fire Safety Officer, Hazardous Materials Officer, Training Officer, if approved.]
ITEM NUMBER NINE IS A CALL, UH, CONSIDER A MOTION TO CALL FOR EXAMINATIONS IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, INCLUDING THE FIRE INSPECTOR ONE, FIRE INVESTIGATOR, FIRE SAFETY OFFICER, HAZARDOUS MATERIAL OFFICER, AND TRAINING OFFICER.IF APPROVED, I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
[10. Consider Motion to Call for Examinations in Police Department - Finger Print Technician, Police Cadet, Police Criminal Information Specialist I, and Police Sergeant.]
NUMBER 10.CONSIDER A MOTION TO CALL FOR EXAMINATIONS IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OR FINGERPRINT TECHNICIAN, POLICE CADET POLICE, CRIMINAL INFORMATION SPECIALIST ONE, AND POLICE SERGEANT.
MAY WE, UH, I SUGGEST THAT WE TAKE ITEMS, UM, 12, 13 PRIOR TO 11.
SO THAT WOULD BECOME, UH, NUMBER 12 WOULD BE THE REHIRE.
NUMBER 11 WOULD BECOME THE REHIRE AND NUMBER 12 WOULD BECOME THE POSTPONEMENT OF THE HEARING.
DO WE HAVE A SECOND TO SECOND? ALL RIGHT.
[Additional Item 1]
NOW WHAT BECOMES NUMBER 11 WILL BE THE INTRODUCTION OR THE APPROVAL OF A REHIRE, UH, AT THIS TIME, UH, MR. SMITH, WOULD YOU READ INTO THE RECORD THE LETTER FROM THE FIRE DEPARTMENT ASKING FOR THIS? YOU GOT IT RIGHT.WE ALL HAVE, I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
WE APPROVE THE CHIEF'S REQUEST TO REHIRE CLARENCE MCG GARNER AS A FIREFIGHTER.
[Additional Item 2]
ON TO ITEM NUMBER 12.AS STATED EARLIER, UH, WE ARE GONNA POSTPONE THE HEARING THAT WAS ORIGINALLY, UM, SCHEDULED FOR APRIL 25TH, UM, FOR A PERCEIVED SETTLEMENT.
OR, UM, ONCE WE HAVE THAT PAPERWORK, WE WILL THEN MAKE THE, UH, I GUESS MAKE ANOTHER CHANGE.
WE'LL JUST REMOVE IT FROM THE DOCKET.
JUST REMOVE IT FROM THE DOCKET MOVE.
SO, UH, WITH THAT SAID, UM, AGAIN, COULD YOU, I SHALL MOVE.
AND DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND BY MS. TRINA.
[11. Appeal Hearing Concerning Captain Todd David]
US TO OUR NEXT ITEM, WHICH IS THE APPEAL HEARING CONCERNING CAPTAIN TODD DAVID.HEY, MR. CHAIRMAN, I THINK WE HAVE, UM, A LOT OF STIPULATIONS, BUT I THINK WE CAN GET THE BOARD SECRETARY TO READ THOSE GENERAL, UH, JOINT STIPULATIONS INTO THE RECORD AND THEN WE CAN TURN IT OVER TO THE FIRE DEPARTMENT'S APPOINTED AUTHORITY.
AT THIS TIME, MS. BREWER, WOULD YOU READ THE JOINT STIPULATIONS INTO THE RECORD FOR US? YES, SIR.
TODD DAVI APPEAL HEARING BANBRIDGE FIRE AND POLICE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD TERMINATION APPEAL STEPPED OUT JOINT STIPULATIONS.
KYLE, THE OTHER ATTORNEY STEPPED OUT FOR IT.
I, I JUST DIDN'T WANNA, MR. KERSHAW WE'RE READING THE STIPULATIONS INTO THE RECORD.
JOINT STIPULATIONS, PETITIONER, FIRE CAPTAIN TODD DAVI AND THE CITY OF BATON ROUGE THROUGH THE BATON ROUGE MUNICIPAL FIRE DEPARTMENT, HEREBY AGREED TO THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, NUMBER ONE, AS
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OF NOVEMBER 12TH, 2022, TODD DAVI WAS AN EMPLOYEE OF THE BATON ROUGE MUNICIPAL FIRE DEPARTMENT WHO HAD IN EXCESS OF 22 YEARS OF SERVICE AND WHO HAD ATTAINED PERMANENT STATUS IN THE BATON ROUGE MUNICIPAL CIVIL SERVICE SYSTEM.ON SEPTEMBER 14TH, 2022, TODD DAVI SUBMITTED TO A RANDOM TEST AS A PART OF HIS EMPLOYMENT.
ON SEPTEMBER 20TH, 2022, THE BANDON ROUGE FIRE DEPARTMENT'S SAFETY DIVISION RECEIVED A VERIFIED POSITIVE TEST NOTICE FOR A MARIJUANA METABOLITE AS A RESULT OF THE AFFOR AFOREMENTIONED TEST OF TODD DAVI.
AT THE TIME OF THE AFOREMENTIONED TEST DRUG TEST, MR. DAR HAD A WRITTEN RECOMMENDATION FROM DR.
PENNY WALKER FOR THE THERAPEUTIC THERAPEUTIC USE OF MARIJUANA FOR PTS D AND CHRONIC PAIN NUMBER FIVE.
PENNY WALKER IS A PHYSICIAN WHO IS LICENSED IN LOUISIANA AND IN GOOD STANDING.
NUMBER SIX, THE RANDOM TESTING THAT WAS PERFORMED HERE IN WAS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE BATON ROUGE MUNICIPAL FIRING POLICE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD, DRUG-FREE WORKPLACE ORDINANCE, WHICH WAS ADOPTED BY THE BOARD ON MARCH 10TH, 1994.
NUMBER SEVEN, TODD DAVI HAD PREVIOUSLY ENTERED INTO A REHAB AGREEMENT WITH THE BANDWIDTH FIRE DEPARTMENT ON MARCH 29TH, 1999, C EXHIBIT TWO, NUMBER EIGHT, A PRE-DETERMINATION HEARING WAS HELD ON SEPTEMBER 27TH, 2022.
EXHIBIT THREE IS A COPY OF THE PRE-DETERMINATION NOTICE NUMBER NINE, DETERMINATION NOTICE WAS ISSUED ON NOVEMBER 11TH, 2022.
IT IS ATTACHED AS EXHIBIT FOUR, NUMBER 10 FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS HEARING AND ANY APPEAL THEREOF, THE PARTIES AGREE THAT THEY WILL NOT DISPUTE THE, THE LEGITIMACY OF THE VERIFIED POSITIVE DRUG TEST AND OR THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA PRESCRIPTION.
FURTHER, THE PARTIES AGREE THAT THERE IS NO DISPUTE AS TO ANY TIME DELAYS OR PROCEDURAL INADEQUACIES ON BEHALF OF EITHER PARTY.
THE PARTIES RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DISPUTE THESE STIPULATIONS IF, IF THERE IS A SEPARATE HEARING OR FORUM REGARDING THESE ISSUES, WHICH DOES NOT INVOLVE THIS HEARING OR INTERRELATED APPEALS.
NUMBER 11, ATTACHED TO THE BATON ROUGE FIRE DEPARTMENT RULES AND REGULATIONS IN EFFECT AT ALL TIMES.
RELEVANT HERE, TWO C EXHIBIT FIVE.
NUMBER 12, ATTACHED IS THE EAST BATON ROUGE PARISH CODE OF ORDINANCE.
TITLE ONE, CHAPTER EIGHT, ENTITLE DRUG-FREE WORKFORCE C EXHIBIT SIX.
NUMBER 13, ATTACH IS FORMER EAST BATON ROUGE PARISH ORDINANCE 94 51 AND 98 77.
AND THIS WAS AGREED TO ON THE 21ST DAY OF APRIL, 2023 BY KYLE KERSHAW, ATTORNEY FOR EMPLOYEE TODD DAVI AGREED ON THE 21ST DAY OF APRIL, 2023 BY DAWN GILLARD, ATTORNEY FOR EMPLOYER BATON ROUGE FIRE DEPARTMENT COUNSEL, IS THAT A FAIR, UH, REPRESENTATION OF THE STIPULATIONS? YES, IT IS.
AND APPEARING DAWN GIK ON BEHALF OF THE BATON ROUGE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
AND YES, THAT IS THE STIPULATIONS.
UM, MR. CHAIRMAN, AT THIS POINT, UM, THE APPOINTING AUTHORITY HAS THE BURDEN OF PROVING GOOD FAITH FOR CAUSE AND COMMENSURATE WITH THE OFFENSE.
SO WE CAN TURN IT OVER TO THEM TO, TO START.
AS TO ARGUMENTS, I'M ASSUMING WE'RE DEFERRING THAT TO THE END, IS THAT CORRECT? YES.
UM, AS TO OUR PRO FACIA CASE, WE BELIEVE THAT THE JOINT STIPULATIONS SUFFICE.
UH, NUMBER ONE, WE HAVE THE PRE TERMINATION NOTICE, WHICH SHOWS THAT DUE PROCESS WAS GIVEN, UH, THAT IS NUMBER THREE.
UH, NUMBER FOUR IS THE TERMINATION NOTICE, WHICH SETS FORTH, SETS FORTH THE REASONS, UH, THE REASONS REFERRED TO THE MUNICIPAL, UH, FIRE AND POLICE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD, DRUG FREE WORKPLACE ORDINANCE, WHICH IS ACTUALLY YOUR RULE AND REGULATIONS.
SO WE HAVE THE TERMINATION NOTICE AS FOUR, THE ACTUAL RULE FOR THIS BOARD AS EXHIBIT NUMBER ONE.
AS TO HIS PRIOR VERIFIED POSITIVE TEST, THAT IS NUMBER
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TWO.IT SHOWS THAT IN 1999 HE TESTED POSITIVE AND ENTERED INTO A REHAB AGREEMENT WITH THE DEPARTMENT.
WE'VE PRESENTED TO YOU THE ORDINANCE THAT STATES YOU CAN ONLY HAVE ONE REHAB AGREEMENT DUE YOUR ENTIRE, UH, EMPLOYMENT, THEREFORE HE WOULDN'T BE ELIGIBLE FOR ANOTHER REHAB AGREEMENT.
UM, AND THEN THERE'S SOME OTHER RELEVANT DOCUMENTS THAT GO MORE TO ARGUMENT THAN OUR PRIMA FACIA CASE.
SO WE WOULD SUBMIT TO YOU THAT THE DEPARTMENT HAS PROVED, UH, THE CAUSE AND FOR AND FOR GOOD REASONS BASED UPON THOSE DOCUMENTS.
SO WE ENTER ALL OF THEM INTO THE RECORD.
AND IN THAT REGARD, UH, WE REST FOR OUR PRIMA FACIA CASE.
UH, WE DO ANTICIPATE THAT THERE WILL, WILL BE SOME TESTIMONY AND WE WANNA RESERVE OUR RIGHT TO REBUT AND ARGUE AND GIVE ANY MORE EXPLANATIONS THAT THE BOARD MAY HAVE ABOUT ANY OF THESE DOCUMENTS OR STIPULATIONS.
BOARD E ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS SO FAR? ALRIGHT, SIR.
MR. CHAIR, I SUGGEST WE, UH, TURN IT OVER TO THE, THE EMPLOYEE.
YEAH, THE LITTLE BUTTON AT THE BASE OF IT.
HI, CAN YOU PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF FOR, UH, THE BOARD PLEASE? THE LITTLE BUTTON LOOK ON THE BOTTOM.
I'M TODD DAVID, UH, FORMER CAPTAIN WITH THE BATON ROUGE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
AND TODD, JUST BY A BRIEF BACKGROUND, WHEN DID YOU START WORKING FOR THE BATON ROUGE FIRE DEPARTMENT? JULY THE SEVENTH, 1997.
I WAS HIRED ON AS A ROOKIE, STARTED ROOKIE SCHOOL.
AND PRIOR TO GOING TO WORK FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, WHAT'D YOU DO FOR THREE YEARS? PRIOR TO 97, I WAS SELF-EMPLOYED WITH A, UH, GENERAL MAINTENANCE MOVING TYPE BUSINESS.
UH, BEFORE THAT I WAS A MAINTENANCE SUPERVISOR FOR 14 YEARS FOR A PREMIER BANK, UH, BATON ROUGE.
AND, UH, WHICH TURNED INTO BANK ONE, I WAS A MAINTENANCE SUPERVISOR FOR THE TWIN TOWERS DOWNTOWN HERE, UH, UNTIL 1994, UH, WHERE I GOT LAID OFF DUE TO A REDUCTION IN FORCE.
AND THEN, SO YOU WENT TO WORK FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IN 97, CORRECT? I WENT TO WORK FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IN 97.
AND TESTIFIED AT THE TIME, UM, WELL, AT THE TIME OF YOUR TERMINATION, WHAT RANK HAD YOU ATTAINED? UH, CAPTAIN.
AND HOW LONG DID IT TAKE FOR YOU TO ATTAIN THAT RANK? I ATTAINED THE RANK OF CAPTAIN IN 2015.
AND BY ATTAINING THAT RANK AND BY YOUR LONGEVITY IN THE DEPARTMENT, HAD YOU ATTAINED CIVIL SERVICE OR PERMANENT STATUS WITH THE CIVIL SERVICE? CORRECT.
I WAS, I HAD PERMANENT STATUS WITH CIVIL SERVICE.
UH, I HAD BEEN THE RANK OF CAPTAIN FOR, UM, I BELIEVE AROUND SEVEN YEARS.
SO LET'S LOOK, TURN YOUR ATTENTION TO WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY.
UM, AND OBVIOUSLY THE ALLEGATION THAT'S BEEN READ OUT AND THE STIPULATIONS HAVE TO DO WITH THAT, YOU TESTED POSITIVE ON A RANDOM DRUG SCREEN FOR, UH, MARIJUANA.
HOW DID, UM, FIRST OFF, WHAT WERE YOU PRESCRIBED? MARIJUANA.
BACK IN 2020, UM, I WAS GOING THROUGH SOME, THROUGH SOME PROBLEMS WITH MY SLEEP PATTERNS AND, UM, I'D WAKE UP OR I WOULD, IN THE MIDDLE OF MY SLEEP WITHOUT WAKING UP, I WOULD START SWINGING AND FIGHTING AND KICKING VIOLENTLY.
UM, ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS, MY WIFE IS LIKE JUMPED OUTTA BED AND SPRUNG OUT CUZ SHE'S AFRAID SHE'S FIXING TO GET HIT OR CLOCKED OR KICKED OR, UM, I'VE, I'VE HAD HISTORY, I'VE HAD, I HAVE A HISTORY OF RUNNING AND, AND TACKLING A SAFE IN MY BEDROOM, UM, AND HURT MYSELF.
UH, I'VE HAD EPISODES WHERE I'VE RUN INTO WALLS AT THE STATION AT NIGHT.
UM, AND, AND IT, IT'S, IT'S GOT, IT GOT REALLY ROUGH AND I
[00:25:01]
WAS CONCERNED FOR MY, MY SAFETY AND MY WIFE'S SAFETY TOO, YOU KNOW.SO THIS CONDITION MANIFESTED ITSELF IN YOUR PERSONAL LIFE AT YOUR HOUSE YES, SIR.
ALSO AT THE STATION HOUSE WHEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO SPEND NIGHTS THERE? YES.
IT, IT, WHAT HAPPENED WHEN I WAS, WHEN I WAS PRESCRIBED IT AND I STARTED, I STARTED TAKING MY MEDICINE.
IT WOULD, IT WOULD HELP ME WHILE I WAS AT HOME, BUT I, I NEVER TOOK ANY MEDICINE.
I NEVER TOOK IT AT WORK BECAUSE I, I COULDN'T, UH, I COULDN'T TAKE IT AT, AT WORK.
I WOULDN'T TAKE IT AT WORK BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO BE AT WORK IMPAIRED.
AND IT WAS, WHEN I TOOK IT AT HOME, IT SEEMED TO HELP ME KIND OF, KIND OF MANIPULATE THROUGH THE NIGHT AND SLEEP BETTER AND NOT HAVE AS MANY EPISODES OF, OF, OF THESE VIOLENT ATTACKS, YOU KNOW, VIOLENT RAGES.
UH, I MEAN, IT, IT, IT GETS PRETTY ROUGH AROUND MY HOUSE AT NIGHT SOMETIMES, ACCORDING TO MY WIFE
SO, SO TELL ME, UH, I MEAN, DID, DOES THIS CONDITION OF YOURS BASICALLY LEAD TO YOU AND YOUR WIFE HAVING TO SLEEP IN SEPARATE BED? YEAH.
WE WOULD HAVE TO SLEEP EITHER IN, IN SEPARATE BEDS OR SEPARATE BEDROOMS OR, OR IT GOT TO THE POINT TO WHERE SHE JUST WASN'T SLEEPING AT NIGHT.
AND, AND OR IF, IF, IF, IF SHE DIDN'T GET UP AND GO IN A DIFFERENT ROOM OR IF I DIDN'T GET UP AND GO INTO A DIFFERENT ROOM, SHE'D JUST LAY AWAKE ALL NIGHT.
AND THEN WHEN I WOULD WAKE UP IN THE MORNING, THEN SHE WOULD GO TO SLEEP AND, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, SO IT, IT, IT, IT WAS DISRUPTING EVERYTHING IN LIFE IN A HOME.
AND YOU MENTIONED AT THE STATION HOUSE, WHAT KIND OF THINGS, WHEN, WHEN, SO THIS IS, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT PRESENTED ITSELF WHILE YOU WERE SLEEPING? YES, SIR.
THIS IS, THIS, THIS WAS ALWAYS WHAT IT, IT, WHEN I WAS SLEEPING, I WOULD GO INTO A FIT OF KICKING OR, UH, I, I, I ESTIMATE I CAN DO ABOUT A FOUR FOOT HIGH KICK OFF MY BED WHEN I'M LAYING DOWN.
UH, I, I'VE, I'VE KICKED A, A NIGHTSTAND AND BROKE A TOENAIL WAY BACK IN THE QUICK WHERE IT TOOK LIKE EIGHT MONTHS TO GROW OUT.
YOU KNOW, UM, I TACKLED MY SAFE ONE TIME AND I THOUGHT I DISLOCATED MY SHOULDER ON THAT ONE.
BUT MR. CHAIRMAN, I, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE AN OBJECTION IN THAT WE ENTERED INTO JOINT STIPULATIONS WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE WOULD BE LIMITED TESTIMONY REGARDING, UH, THE SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS OF THE ORDINANCE AND WHAT HIS BELIEFS WERE.
I THINK WE'RE GOING FOR A FIELD OF THAT.
I DON'T WANT TO INTERRUPT, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, I THINK THAT WE ALL NEED TO STAY WITHIN THOSE STIPULATIONS.
AND IN THAT REGARD, I WAS JUST PRESENTING BRIEF TESTIMONY.
I WAS JUST PRESENTING BRIEF TESTIMONY SO THAT THE BOARD WOULD KNOW WHAT THE LEGITIMATE MEDICAL PURPOSE WAS OF THIS PRESCRIPTION INSTEAD OF JUST A STIPULATION THAT I HAD A LEGITIMATE REASON.
AND I STATED IN THEM RIGHT IN THERE ABOUT PTSD AND CHRONIC PAIN.
BUT, SO I THINK THE POINT'S BEEN MADE, IT GIVES BACKGROUND INFORMATION AS TO WHAT THE NEED OR WHY THE NEED WAS THERE.
SO, UM, IS THIS THE CONDITION THAT LED TO YOUR DECISION TO THEN SEEK MEDICAL TREATMENT BY WAY OF, UM, DRUG INTERVENTION? YES, SIR.
IT, UM, THROUGH THE YEARS IT'S BEEN SUGGESTED I TAKE OTHER SLEEP AIDS.
I, I HAVE, UH, TRIED A COUPLE OF THEM AND, AND WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IS THAT I'D BE OUT FOR LIKE TWO DAYS.
UH, I DON'T, I I DON'T DO WELL WITH, UH, OTHER SLEEP AIDS LIKE MELATONIN AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
UH, I, NO, I TRIED THAT AND, UH, IT, IT TOOK ME OUT FOR A WHILE.
AND, UM, WHEN THIS WAS SUGGESTED TO ME, AND, UH, SPOKE WITH MY DOCTOR ABOUT IT AND TOLD HER WHAT I WAS GOING THROUGH, SHE SEEMED TO THINK IT WOULD HELP QUITE A BIT.
AND, UH, THAT'S WHEN SHE, SHE WROTE A PRESCRIPTION FOR IT.
DID YOU CONSIDER POSSIBLY ASKING FOR ANY ALTERNATIVE, UH, DRUGS OTHER THAN, UH, THERAPEUTIC MARIJUANA? YES, SIR.
BUT WHAT I DIDN'T WANT TO DO WAS I LOOKED INTO, UM, DIFFERENT SLEEP AID MEDICINES OR DIFFERENT DRUGS.
I DON'T WANNA INTERRUPT, BUT WE, WE CONTINUE TO DO THIS.
YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T HAVE DOCTORS HERE TO GO THROUGH THE, THE DETAILS OF THE DISEASE, THE DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVES.
THAT WAS BY JOINT STIPULATION.
AND THIS IS, SO I THINK WE ARE AGAIN, GETTING FOR A FIELD OF WHAT WAS AGREED UPON AND WHY WE DON'T HAVE THE PHYSICIANS HERE TO RESPOND TO
[00:30:01]
THAT IS BECAUSE OF THE AGREEMENT.UH, I THINK WHAT HE WAS, WHAT HE WAS ASKING WAS DID HE SEEK OTHER METHODS TO, I GUESS WHAT YOU WERE GETTING AT THAT, DID HE HAVE OTHER ALTERNATIVES THAN JUST THIS ONE? CORRECT.
SO LET LET, AND IT'S MORE OF HIS DECISION NOT CORRECT WHAT'S OUT, WHAT OTHER MEDICAL DOCTORS WOULD SAY.
I'M TRYING TO, AND, AND IT'S, ONCE AGAIN, IT'S GONNA BE BRIEF ABOUT HIS DECISION, HOW HE CAME ABOUT COMING TO THIS PRESCRIPTION AS OPPOSED TO GETTING OPIOIDS OR BENZOS OR ANYTHING, ANY OTHER SCHEDULED NARCOTIC.
AND THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M GETTING HERE.
YOU'RE JUST NARROWING DOWN THE PATH TO WHAT YOU GOT THERE.
SO PRETTY MUCH THIS WAS THE, THE, YOU KNOW, YOUR BEST BET IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
THIS WAS YOUR BEST OPTION MEDICAL MEDICALLY SPEAKING? YES.
THIS WAS PROBABLY OKAY THAT FROM, FROM HIS OPINION.
SO CUZ WE DON'T HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF DOCTORS OR ANYBODY ELSE, THIS IS YOUR OPINION OF WHAT WAS BEST FOR YOU.
SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, HEY, AS WELL AS MY, MY, MY DOCTOR'S OPINION.
OKAY, WELL, WE WE CAN'T TAKE YOUR DOCTOR'S OPINION WELL CAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A AND HER RECOMMENDATION OR WHATEVER.
SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, LET'S JUST KIND, KIND OF SURE.
WHAT WAS YOUR ALONE? AND, AND, AND TODD, JUST TELL HIM, DID YOU HAVE ADDICTION CONCERNS? OH, I HAD BIG ADDICTION CONCERNS IF I WAS GONNA START TAKING OPIATES AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
I DID NOT WANT TO BE ADDICTED TO ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
WELL, LET'S, LET'S GET THIS CLEAR THOUGH.
BUT OPIATES WOULD USUALLY BE FOR PAIN.
WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH A PAIN ISSUE.
RIGHT? WELL, THE, WELL JUST WHAT CHRONIC PAIN AS WELL.
IT WAS PTSD AND CHRONIC PAIN ACCORDING TO DR.
PENNY'S, UH, PENNY WALKER'S, UM, RECORD THAT'S IN, IN THERE.
SO, SO AFTER THESE CONSIDERATIONS, UM, IS IT, UM, SO I ALREADY ASKED YOU, YOU KNOW, WAS THIS THE CONDITION THAT LED TO YOUR DECISION TO MOVE FORWARD WITH POSSIBLY AT OBTAINING, UM, A PRESCRIPTION FROM MARIJUANA? UM, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WHENEVER THIS WAS FLOATED TO YOU AS AN IDEA THAT THIS COULD HELP WITH YOUR CONDITION, DID YOU LOOK INTO IT? AND I SAY WHEN I LOOKED INTO IT, DID YOU LOOK INTO IT TO SEE THAT YOUR, THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT YOUR EMPLOYMENT, THAT YOU COULD MAINTAIN EMPLOYMENT WITH THIS? I LOOKED INTO IT, IT, WHAT I DID, UH, I'VE BEEN TOLD MY WHOLE CAREER, IF THERE WAS SOMETHING YOU HAD A QUESTION ABOUT, GO TO THE, UH, FIRE DEPARTMENT OF RULES AND REGULATIONS BOOK.
AND SO I WENT TO THE RULES AND REGULATIONS BOOK.
AND WHAT I FOUND IN IT SAID THAT IF YOU HAD A PRESCRIPTION THAT YOU COULD, IF YOU TESTED POSITIVE AND YOU HAD A PRESCRIPTION, YOU WAS OKAY.
UM, AND THAT'S WHAT MY MANUAL TOLD ME.
AND I WANNA SHOW YOU, WHEN YOU SAID YOUR MANUAL, WHEN YOU SAID YOUR MANUAL TOLD YOU THIS, WHAT ARE YOU REFERRING TO? AND I'M GONNA SHOW YOU SPECIFICALLY, THIS IS EXHIBIT, UH, IT'S ATTACHED TO OUR STIPULATIONS AS THE, UH, BAT ROUGE FIRE DEPARTMENT RULES AND REGULATIONS SAYS YES, EXHIBIT FIVE, AND IT'LL BE PAGE 25.
IS IT, IS IT THIS SECTION 4.33 THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO? CORRECT.
UH, I WENT TO SECTION 4.33 ENTITLED CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES, AND IT SAYS, NO MEMBER ON OR OFF DUTY SHALL CONSUME OR POSSESS ANY CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE EXCEPT THOSE OBTAINED WITH A VALID PRESCRIPTION PRESCRIBED BY A LICENSED PHYSICIAN FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES.
NO MEMBER WHILE USING CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES, SHALL BE ON DUTY WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF HIS PHYSICIAN.
AND I READ THAT AND I SAID, WELL, IF MY DOCTOR GIVES ME A PRESCRIPTION FOR THIS, I SHOULD BE OKAY.
YOU KNOW, AND I KEPT READING AND, AND 4.34, IT GETS INTO THE INTOXICATED LIQUOR AND DRUGS.
AND I READ THAT AND DIDN'T REALLY MEAN A WHOLE LOT TO ME, BUT I GOT BELOW THAT AND IT SAID,
[00:35:01]
ALL FIRE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEES MUST ADHERE TO CITY PARISH ORDINANCE NUMBER 9 45 1, WHICH IS THE DRUG FREE WORKFORCE ORDINANCE ADOPTED BY THE METRO FIRE POLICE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD.SO I SAID, WELL, I PROBABLY NEED TO GO AND LOOK AT THAT.
SO I I, I WENT TO THAT, THAT RULE THERE, AND IT BASICALLY SAID THE SAME THING AS WHAT IT SAYS IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH ON 4.33 OF THIS POLICY.
OH, TODD, WHEN YOU SAY YOU WENT, WENT THERE TO LOOK, YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE MUNICIPAL THAT THEY'RE REFERRING TO THE BAT ROUGE MUNICIPAL ORDINANCE.
UH, WHICH PAGE IS HE
WELL, IT WAS KIND OF CONFUSING WHENEVER I WENT TO IT BECAUSE I COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING WHERE THIS SAYS CITY PARISH ORDINANCE NUMBER 9 40 51 DRUG FREE WORKPLACE WORKFORCE.
I COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING WITH THAT NUMBER 94 51 ON IT.
AND THE ONLY THING I DID FIND WAS A THING THAT SAID, I THINK IT WAS CITY PARISH DRUG FREE WORKFORCE.
AND, AND, AND THAT DOCUMENT THERE, WHICH I THINK IS, IS, IS, IS COMES INTO Y'ALL'S STUFF, IS THE, UM, SAID THE EXACT SAME THING AS MY POLICY AS MY RULES AND REGULATION POLICY SAID, AND I WANT YOU TO READ IT.
IS THIS WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO? AND THIS WOULD BE THE BATON ROUGE MUNICIPAL ORDINANCES THAT WOULD BE ON OUR STIPULATIONS EXHIBIT SIX MM-HMM.
AND IT WOULD BE SECTION 1 9 0 3.
IS THIS WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO? AND I BELIEVE YES.
ALL CITY PATCH EMPLOYEES ARE ALSO PROHIBITED FROM ONE WORKING OR REPORTING FOR WORK UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ANY DRUG OR WITH A SUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF ANY DRUG OR METABOLITE THEREOF IN THEIR SYSTEM.
TWO RESULT IN A POSITIVE TEST AS DEFINED IN SUBSECTION ONE, COLON 9 0 2 F1 OF THIS CHAPTER, UNLESS A, THE DRUG WAS A OBTAIN DIRECTLY OR PURSUANT TO A VALID PRESCRIPTION OR ORDER FROM A PRACTITIONER AS PROVIDED IN THE LOUISIANA UNIFORM CONTROLLED DANGEROUS SUBSTANCE LAW WHILE ACTING IN THE COURSE OF HIS PROFESSIONAL PRACTICE.
SO, UM, SO AFTER READING THAT, I THOUGHT I WAS GOOD STILL.
SO AT THIS POINT, AND THIS IS, IS THIS ALL PRIOR TO YOU OBTAINING THE PRESCRIPTION FOR THE MARIJUANA? YES, SIR.
SO DID YOU FEEL THAT YOU WERE DOING YOUR DUE DILIGENCE TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT YOU WERE COMPLYING WITH WHAT WAS REQUIRED OF YOU FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT? YES, SIR.
UM, SO SUBSEQUENT TO THAT, YOU THEN MET WITH THE DOCTOR AND, AND WERE PRESCRIBED THE THERAPEUTIC USE OF MARIJUANA, CORRECT? RIGHT.
UM, DID THE DOCTOR ADVISE YOU THAT YOU COULD USE THIS AT WORK? NO.
THE, I MEAN, SHE, THE DOCTOR DIDN'T SAY ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
UH, I THINK THE DOCTOR WANTS ME TO USE IT ALL THE TIME TO, TO, TO, SO THAT I DON'T SUFFER FROM THE DAMAGE FROM THE MEDICAL CONDITION I SUFFER FROM.
BUT I CHOSE NOT TO USE IT AT WORK MYSELF.
UH, IN FACT, POLICY SAYS YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY, ONE OF THE POLICIES SAYS YOU CAN USE IT AT WORK IF, IF YOUR DOCTOR SAYS IT'S OKAY, BUT I NEVER CHECKED WITH MY DOCTOR, IN ALL HONESTY, I, I JUST DIDN'T WANNA USE IT AT WORK.
SO YOU DIDN'T USE IT AT WORK? NO.
NEVER REPORTED TO WORK UNDER THE INFLUENCE? NO, NO.
THEN AFTER COMING TO WORK, NEVER, NEVER HAD IT AT WORK.
UH, NEVER BROUGHT IT TO WORK WITH ME, LEFT MY MEDICINE AT HOME, UH, AND NEVER TOOK IT AT WORK.
AND THIS WAS BACK IN 2020 IS WHEN YOU GOT THE PRESCRIPTION WAS GIVEN TO YOU? CORRECT.
AND HAVE, HAVE YOU, HAVE YOU HAD ANY TYPE OF PERFORMANCE EVALUATIONS OR JOB
[00:40:01]
REVIEWS SINCE THEN? UM, I'VE GOTTEN A COUPLE OF, UH, I GUESS, UH, I REALLY HADN'T HAD A, UH, PERFORMANCE EVALUATION.UH, UH, I DON'T THINK THE, THE DEPARTMENT REALLY GIVES US EVALUATIONS, UH, OTHER THAN LIKE WHEN WE MAKE PROMOTIONS OR SOMETHING.
UM, BUT I HAVEN'T HAD ANY COMPLAINTS AGAINST ME AND NO ONE'S IN EVER.
BEEN IN ANY TROUBLE OR ANYTHING.
AND THIS HAS NEVER SINCE 2020, BEFORE THIS INCIDENT, BEFORE THIS POSITIVE DRUG SCREEN, THERE'S, WERE THERE ANY NEGATIVE JOB, UH, EMPLOYMENT CONSEQUENCES BECAUSE OF THIS, UH, BECAUSE OF YOUR PRESCRIPTION OR USE THEREOF? NO.
UM, NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT THE EVENTS LEADING UP TO YOUR TERMINATION IN THIS DRUG SCREEN.
TELL ME ABOUT HOW, JUST REAL BRIEFLY, HOW THIS DRUG SCREEN CAME ABOUT, HOW THIS DRUG SCREEN CAME IN? YEAH.
UM, I HAD BEEN OFF WORK FOR, UH, LIKE 40 DAYS ON A COMBINATION OF, UM, VACATION AND HOLIDAYS, AND THEN I WAS OFF, SO I BELIEVE I WAS OFF SICK PART OF THAT TIME TOO.
BUT, UH, I FOUND MYSELF AT HEADQUARTERS, UH, TO DO, UH, MAYBE TO THE CREDIT UNION.
I THINK IT WAS, I WAS GOING, BUT ANYWAY, I SEEN THE CHIEF IN THE OFFICE IN THE HALLWAY AND, UH, WE SPOKE AND I SAID, LOOK, WHEN YOU GET HIM IN, I WANTED TO TALK TO YOU.
AND HE SAID, I HAVE, YOU KNOW, I HAVE TIME.
AND WE WALKED OUTSIDE AND TALKED AND HAD A LITTLE CONVERSATION.
AND, UM, IN THAT CONVERSATION I HAD, UH, I HAD SOMETHING FOR HIM I HAD BROUGHT TO HIM.
AND, UM, I ASKED HIM ABOUT, UM, A WHILE BACK WE HAD A COMMITTEE THAT HAD A COMMITTEE THAT WENT AND TALKED TO THE CHIEF REGARDING MEDICAL MARIJUANA AND THE PRESCRIPTION.
AND HAD, THEY HAD ACTUALLY TALKED TO HIM ABOUT WHAT THE POLICY WAS ON IT.
AND IN OUR LITTLE TALK WE WERE HAVING, I ASKED HIM, YOU KNOW, ABOUT THAT COMMITTEE MEETING AND HOW THAT WENT.
AND HE BASICALLY LET ME KNOW THAT, UM, HE WASN'T ACCEPTING, UH, PRESCRIPTIONS AND YOU'D BE FIRED IF YOU, IF YOU TESTED.
AND I WAS SCHEDULED TO GO BACK TO WORK IN LIKE THREE DAYS OR FOUR DAYS.
ANYWAY, MY NEXT DAY BACK AT WORK, UM, LATE IN THE EVENING AROUND 5, 5 15, I GOT NOTIFIED THAT I WAS PICKED TO GO TAKE A DRUG TEST, A RANDOM TEST FROM WHAT IT WAS TOLD.
UM, AND WAS THAT THE FIRST DAY BACK? CORRECT.
AND THEN YOU HAD THAT, THAT TALK WITH THE CHIEF JUST A FEW DAYS PRIOR? RIGHT.
I HAD THAT TALK WITH THE CHIEF JUST A FEW DAYS PRIOR AND, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, HE SAID SOMETHING OR I, WHEN HE TOLD ME HIS FEELINGS ON THE, YOU KNOW, I, I TOLD HIM THEN THAT IN MY OPINION, HE WAS PUTTING HIMSELF IN A BAD POSITION WITH IT, WITH, WITH HIS STANCE ON IT BECAUSE OF WHAT I HAD READ IN THE RULE BOOK PREVIOUSLY.
UM, SO ON THIS DAY BACK, AND ACCORDING TO YOUR, UH, PRE-DETERMINATION LETTER, I BELIEVE SEPTEMBER 14 WAS A DATE THAT THE DRUG TEST WAS TAKEN AND YOU TESTED POSITIVE FOR THC OR MARIJUANA.
UM, SO AT THE TIME WHEN YOU SAW THIS LETTER, DID ANYTHING CONCERN YOU ABOUT THAT LETTER? NOT REALLY, BECAUSE I FELT LIKE I WAS OKAY WITH IT WHEN IN, IN THE PRE-DETERMINATION HEARING, THEY WOULD, THEY WOULD SEE HOW THE RULES READ AND SEE THE, IF YOU HAD A PRESCRIPTION IT WAS OKAY.
SO YOU'RE, WHEN YOU SAY RULES, ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE POLICY MANUAL? YES, SIR.
ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE BATON ROUGE CITY ORDINANCE? I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THERE WAS SUCH A CITY ORDINANCE.
THE, THE MUNICIPAL ORDINANCE THAT THE, THE, THE, AND I KNOW, UH, THERE'S BEEN SOME WORDPLAY HERE.
WE GOT THE MUNICIPAL, OR LET ME OBJECT.
I'VE BEEN REAL LENIENT ABOUT LEADING AND ALL, CUZ I
[00:45:01]
DON'T WANNA BOG US DOWN, BUT WE'RE, WE'RE DOING ALL THE TESTIFYING AT THIS POINT, SO I'M GONNA OBJECT TO THE LEADING PAGE.SO QUESTION, IS THAT PRE-DETERMINATION LETTER THE FIRST TIME YOU FOUND OUT THAT THERE WAS SOME TYPE OF CIVIL SERVICE BOARD RULE CONCERNING THIS? YES.
AND PRIOR TO RECEIVING THAT LETTER, DID YOU EVEN KNOW THAT, THAT THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD HAD SUCH A RULE? NO, SIR.
DID YOU, DID YOU TRY TO FIND ALL RULES THAT WOULD APPLY TO YOU BEFORE GETTING THIS PRESCRIPTION? I, I LOOKED EVERYWHERE I KNEW TO LOOK.
UM, I, I WENT TO MY POLICY MANUAL.
I LOOKED ON THE, ON THE, UH, STATE EXAMINER'S WEBSITE.
AT ONE POINT I FOUND MYSELF LOOKING AT IT, UM, BECAUSE SOMETHING ELSE REFERRED ME TO THE STATE EXAMINER.
WHEN I, WHEN I LOOKED UNDER, THERE WAS A EL UH, SOME, SOME OTHER THING.
UH, THERE'S, THERE WAS TWO, TWO LOUISIANA LAWS OR SOMETHING.
I, I, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY'RE AT.
UM, ANOTHER RULE THAT CAME ABOUT IT, IT WASN'T UNTIL KYLE SHOWED IT TO ME AND HE HAD TO GET IT FROM, UH, A PAST SECRETARY OF THE BOARD HERE OR SOMETHING OUT OF HER ATTIC OR SOMETHING.
AM I ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION? THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF THINGS THAT'S COME UP WITH THIS THAT'S, IT'S BEEN CONTRADICTING TO ONE ANOTHER.
SO I GUESS WHAT, UH, I'M ASKING IS WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU SAW THIS LETTER, IT REFERENCES SOME TYPE OF CIVIL SERVICE BOARD.
THEY CALL IT AN ORDINANCE, BUT IT'S A RULE.
AND WAS THAT THE FIRST TIME YOU'RE LEARNING THAT THIS RULE EVEN EXISTED? YES.
AND PRIOR TO RECEIVING THE PRESCRIPTION, DID YOU ATTEMPT TO FIND ANY RULE THAT WOULD APPLY TO YOUR SITUATION? YES.
AND YOUR CONCERN WAS YOUR EMPLOYMENT? YOU WANTED TO YES.
UM, SO, UM, SO TALKING ABOUT THAT RULE, WAS THAT RULE WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED WORK WORKING WITH THE FIRE DEPARTMENT? MM-HMM.
OUR FIRST DAY OF CLASS WHEN WE WENT IN, WE WERE HANDED A POLICIES AND MANUAL AND ACTUALLY ONE OF THE CHIEFS IN THE, IN THE ADMINISTRATION READ EACH RULE TO US THROUGH THAT POLICY AS PART OF THE FIRST DAY OF CLASS.
AND IS THAT THE POLICY MANUAL THAT YOU CONSULTED PRIOR TO OBTAINING THIS PRESCRIPTION? YES.
IN TRAINING, DID ANYBODY PRESENT TO YOU ANY CIVIL SERVICE BOARD RULES THAT MAY HAVE BEEN IN EXISTENCE? NO, SIR.
AT ANY TIME DURING, DURING YOUR EMPLOYMENT PRIOR TO THIS DRUG TEST, HAD ANYBODY GIVEN YOU A SET OF CIVIL SERVICE BOARD RULES THAT MAY APPLY TO YOUR CONDUCT? NO, SIR.
SO WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT WHEN YOU GOT THAT PRE-DETERMINATION LETTER IS THE FIRST TIME YOU FOUND OUT OR DISCOVERED THAT THERE WAS SUCH A RULE? YES, SIR.
UM, HAS THIS, HAS THIS PRESCRIPTION EVEN HELPED YOU? YES, IT'S HELPED TREMENDOUSLY.
UM, I GENERALLY, UH, TAKE IT BEFORE I GO TO BED AND I GENERALLY FALL ASLEEP FAIRLY EASILY AND I HAVE A FAIRLY GOOD NIGHT'S SLEEP.
UM, THE NUMBER OF INSTANCES THAT, UH, FIGHTER IT HAS BEEN GREATLY REDUCED.
UH, MY WIFE AND I ARE ABLE TO SLEEP IN THE SAME BED AND SOMEWHAT OF THE SAME HOURS THESE DAYS, YOU KNOW, UM, I HAVEN'T, I HAVEN'T REALLY INJURED MYSELF ANY AT NIGHT LATELY, YOU KNOW, OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.
SO, SO IT IT IS HELPED ME TREMENDOUSLY.
MS. GEE I'S PROBABLY GONNA ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS, OKAY? OKAY.
DOES HE HAVE THE, THE COPY OF THE EXHIBITS, THE SECOND COPY THAT NO.
COULD WE BE GIVEN, AND LET ME APOLOGIZE THAT I'VE
[00:50:01]
GOT MY BACK TURNED TO YOU, BUT THAT'S OKAY.IF YOU UGLY TO ME, I MIGHT TURN MY BACK TO YOU.
I'M GONNA ASK SIR, THAT YOU LOOK AT EXHIBIT NUMBER TWO ON SEPTEMBER THE 14TH.
IS THAT WHAT YOU SAYING? EXHIBIT, IF YOU LOOK BEHIND, THAT'S THE STIPULATION.
UNCLIP IT AND YOU CAN FLIP THROUGH AND YOU CAN SEE EXHIBIT TWO, IT'LL HAVE LIKE A COVER SHEET ON IT.
IT'S YOUR REHAB AGREEMENT EXHIBIT ONE.
YOU REMEMBER THIS REHAB AGREEMENT? YES, MA'AM.
AND WHEN WAS THAT? MARCH 24TH, 1999.
AND THAT'S BECAUSE YOU TESTED POSITIVE FOR MARIJUANA IN 1999, IS THAT CORRECT? YES MA'AM.
AND THAT WAS BEFORE YOU HAD MEDICAL MARIJUANA, SO I CAN ASSUME THAT THAT WAS THE ILLEGAL USE OF MARIJUANA, CORRECT? NOT NECESSARILY.
I WAS, I WAS, I MEAN, YEAH, I GUESS IT WAS.
AND IN THAT IT SAYS, READ NUMBER ONE, THE EMPLOYEE ACKNOWLEDGES AND AGREES THAT ON MARCH 24TH SHE, HE VIOLATED THE MUNICIPAL FIRE AND POLICE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD, DRUG FREE WORKFORCE ORDINANCE FOR A CITY OF BATON ROUGE AND PARISH OF EAST BATON ROUGE BY SUBMITTING A SPECIMEN THAT TESTED POSITIVE ON A URINE DRUG TEST AND OR BREATH OR BLOOD ALCOHOL TEST.
AND THAT REFERENCES THIS MUNICIPAL FIRE POLICE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD, DRUG-FREE WORKPLACE ORDINANCE THAT YOU SAID YOU DIDN'T KNOW EXISTED UNTIL RECENTLY, CORRECT? RIGHT.
THE THE ONE THAT SAYS THAT, THAT THAT UNLESS RIGHT, UNLESS YOU HAVE A PRESCRIPTION, YOU TESTIFIED WHAT? THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW.
THIS MUNICIPAL FIRE AND POLICE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD ORDINANCE EXISTED BEFORE RECENTLY, CORRECT.
AND THIS AGREEMENT RIGHT HERE ACKNOWLEDGES THAT YOU TESTED POSITIVE UNDER IT.
IS THAT CORRECT? UH, I'M NOT SURE IF THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME AGREEMENT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT OR NOT, MA'AM.
UM, NOW WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THE CITY ORDINANCE, DID YOU REALIZE UNDER THE CITY ORDINANCE THAT YOU WOULD'VE BEEN FIRED OR TESTED POSITIVE AND THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE A REHAB AGREEMENT UNDER THE CITY ORDINANCE? OKAY, YOU'RE REFERENCING THE CITY, THE MUNICIPAL CITY ORDINANCE AND SAYING, UH, KYLE SHOWED IT TO YOU AS EXHIBIT NUMBER FIVE.
SO FIVE IS WHAT YOU'RE REFERENCING AS THE CITY ORDINANCE.
YOU'RE SAYING YOU LOOKED AT THAT? YES MA'AM.
UNDER THAT ORDINANCE PEOPLE GET FIRED FOR TESTING POSITIVE THEY DON'T GET REHAB AGREEMENTS.
WELL, I'M ASKING IF YOU LOOK AT THE TIME YOU SIGNED THIS REHAB AGREEMENT, UHHUH
I MEAN, WHY, WHY AM I NOT GETTING FIRED IN 99? YEAH, NO MA'AM.
I DIDN'T GO ASKING ALL THEM QUESTIONS.
CUZ YOU HAD A REHAB AGREEMENT AND THE ONLY PLACE THAT WAS AT THE TIME WAS UNDER THE MUNICIPAL DRUG-FREE WORKPLACE ORDINANCE.
IS THAT CORRECT? I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU'RE EXACTLY ASKING ME, MA'AM.
WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT WHEN I SIGNED THIS AGREEMENT IN 1999, THIS IS WHAT THEY TOLD ME I WOULD BE ABLE TO KEEP MY JOB WITH AND, AND SO I SIGNED IT, IT IT COULD HAVE SAID THAT, THAT, THAT I WAS GREEN AND I WOULD'VE STILL SIGNED IT JUST TO KEEP MY JOB.
UM, NOW AS FAR AS THE POLICE CIVIL SERVICE, WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT THAT I'M, I, THIS THING HAD A LOT OF STUFF IN IT THAT I, I DIDN'T REALLY, YOU KNOW, I JUST WANTED TO KEEP MY JOB UNDERSTOOD.
NOW YOU'RE A CAPTAIN, IS THAT CORRECT? YES SIR.
AND DO YOU KNOW HOW TO LOOK UP THE RULES AT ALL ON THE METRO NET THAT YOU HAVE, UM, IN YOUR OFFICE? NO, MA'AM.
SO YOU SERVE AS CAPTAIN, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO LOOK UP ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET? NO, MA'AM.
[00:55:01]
I DIDN'T SAY THAT.I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE METRO NET.
I KNOW HOW TO, I CAN POINT AND CLICK AT A FEW THINGS ON IT, BUT I'M PRETTY COMPUTER STUPID IF YOU WANNA KNOW THE TRUTH.
SO, AND, AND AS A CAPTAIN, I'VE NEVER BEEN PUT THROUGH ANY KIND OF COMPUTER CLASS EITHER, BUT EVERY DAY YOU ENFORCE THE RULES AND REGULATIONS AGAINST THE PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR YOU, CORRECT? YES SIR.
AND YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT YOU WERE UNAWARE THAT EVERY STATION HAD THE ABILITY TO LOOK UP BOTH THE RULES AND REGULATIONS AS WELL AS THIS ORDINANCE THAT YOU'RE SAYING YOU DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT? NO MA'AM.
I'M NOT TELLING YOU EVERY STATION HAS THE ABILITY OR DOESN'T HAVE THE ABILITY.
I'M JUST SAYING I DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO POINT AND CLICK AT A LOT OF THINGS.
I I, I CAN MANEUVER AROUND ON THE INTERNET A LITTLE BIT, BUT MA'AM, I'M 61 YEARS OLD.
I AIN'T NEVER BEEN TO A COMPUTER CLASS IN MY LIFE.
AND THE ONLY THING I KNOW ABOUT IT IS WHAT THEY TAUGHT ME TO FILL OUT REPORTS.
BUT YOU WERE ABLE TO FIND THE CITY ORDINANCE ON YOUR OWN AND DO THE RESEARCH THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT DOING ON YOUR OWN.
WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CITY ORDINANCE, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE, THE, THE, THE, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT RULES AND REGULATIONS AS WELL AS THE CITY ORDINANCE THAT YOU SAID YOU RESPONDED TO YOUR ATTORNEY BY SAYING I WENT LOOKING FOR 94 51 AND I FOUND THE CITY ORDINANCE UHHUH
AND I'M ASKING YOU, HOW WERE YOU ABLE TO FIND THAT IF YOU COULDN'T FIND WHAT WAS ON THE METRONET IN YOUR OWN OFFICE? WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T HAVE REALLY AN OFFICE.
AND SECOND OF ALL, YOUR STATION.
I CAN GO TO GOOGLE AND TYPE IN A QUESTION AND COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF AN ANSWER.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S RIGHT OR NOT, BUT THAT'S WHAT GOOGLE TELLS ME.
I'VE NEVER BEEN, I CAN'T GET ON MY PHONE.
NOW IF I GO TO A STATION AND THE METRO NET IS LOADED ON THE SCREEN AS A, AS A THING, YOU JUST GOTTA POINT TO AND CLICK ON IT AND YOU GET TO IT.
BUT FAR AS LIKE TAKING MY PHONE AND GOING TO WHERE THE METRO NET IS, I HAVE NO CLUE HOW TO GET TO ANY OF THAT.
I, I DON'T, I I DON'T HAVE A COMPUTER AT MY HOUSE AND MY COMPUTER SKILLS ARE SOMEWHAT CAN EXCUSE ME, CAN WE MOVE ON? I THINK HE'S ATTESTING TO HIS INABILITY TO USE COMPUTER TO FIND, SIR, ISN'T IT TRUE THAT IN FACT EITHER THE UNION PRESIDENT OR YOUR ATTORNEY EXPLAINED TO YOU ABOUT THESE CITY ORDINANCES AND ALL? IT WASN'T YOU GOING LOOK FOR HIM EARLY ON TO SEE IF YOU COULD HAVE THE PRESCRIPTION, BUT RATHER WHEN ALL THIS CAME UP THAT YOUR UNION PRESIDENT AND YOUR ATTORNEY EXPLAINED TO YOU THE ARGUMENT.
SEE WHERE I'M GOING? I SEE WHERE YOU GOING? GOOD.
NO, I LOOKED IT UP ON MY OWN AND THAT'S WHAT I FOUND.
UM, NOW YOU TESTIFIED IN RESPONSE TO ONE OF MY QUESTIONS THAT YOU SIGNED THIS REHAB AGREEMENT CUZ YOU WANTED TO KEEP YOUR JOB RIGHT? YES, MA'AM.
AND AFTER THE PRETERM HEARING WITH THE CHIEF, DIDN'T HE OFFER YOU ANOTHER REHAB AGREEMENT JUST IN CASE YOU WERE CONFUSED? HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAD THE ABILITY TO ENTER INTO A REHAB AGREEMENT, BUT YOU COULD SAVE YOUR JOB.
DIDN'T HE MAKE THAT OFFER TO YOU? THIS WAS JUST RECENTLY A COUPLE? YES, SIR.
HE MADE IT, HE MADE AN OFFER TO ME.
I COULD KEEP MY JOB, UH, HOWEVER, I COULDN'T TAKE MY MEDICINE AND KEEP MY JOB.
AND, UH, ALL I WANTED TO DO WAS BE ABLE TO KEEP MY JOB, FINISH MY CAREER, AND TAKE MY MEDICINE AT HOME.
I DON'T WANT TO TAKE IT AROUND THE STATION, I DON'T WANT TO TAKE IT AT WORK.
UH, I JUST WANNA BE ABLE TO TAKE IT AT HOME WHERE IT DOESN'T AFFECT ME AT WORK.
AND, AND, AND, UH, YOU KNOW, ACCORDING TO THESE RULES, YOU KNOW, IT, IT SAYS I CAN, AND ACCORDING TO THIS REHABILITATION AGREEMENT, IT SAYS THAT I CAN'T BE OFFERED A SECOND REHABILITATION AGREEMENT.
SO WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ME THERE IS YES, HE OFFERED ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO BREAK WHOEVER'S RULE
[01:00:01]
IT IS THAT SAYS I CAN'T HAVE A SECOND CONTRACT.HE, HE, HE WANTED ME TO SIGN A SECOND CONTRACT, WHICH WOULD'VE BROKE THE REHABILITATION AGREEMENT OR EVEN THE WORKPLACE FORCE RULES.
BUT YOU CAME TO HIM ALLEGING ALL THIS CONFUSION AND THE CHIEF HAS THE DISCRETION TO DETERMINE, OKAY, WELL LET ME GIVE HIM A CHANCE TO MAKE SURE THERE ISN'T ANY CONFUSION.
SO HE SAYS, SIR, IT'S A VIOLATION, BUT SINCE YOU ARE ALLEGING THE CONFUSION, I'M GONNA GIVE YOU THE ALTERNATIVE TO SIGN AN AGREEMENT AND YOU REFUSE IT.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S A YES OR WOULD ANSWER.
WOULD YOU, WOULD YOU REPEAT THAT ONE MORE TIME? I SAID WAS SOMETHING IN THERE THAT, THAT, THAT TOOK ME FOR A TRIP.
BRIEF, HE OFFERED YOU A REHAB AGREEMENT AND YOU REFUSED.
IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT, BECAUSE HE WOULDN'T ALLOW ME TO TAKE MY MEDICINE AND IT'D BEEN A THREE YEAR PROBATION THAT, THAT, UH, I DIDN'T THINK I DESERVED FOR NOT, I, I DON'T THINK I DID ANYTHING WRONG.
I FOLLOWED THE RULES THAT ARE ACCORDING TO THE, TO THE, UH, POLICIES AND PROCEDURES MANUALS THAT ARE WRITTEN.
UM, I FOLLOWED THIS OTHER RULE THAT'S WRITTEN WITH THE, WITH THE, UH, CIVIL SERVICE BOARD HERE.
UH, I HAD A PRESCRIPTION, BOTH OF THEM SAID IT WAS OKAY.
I I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT ANY OTHER RULES I'M SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW.
AND YOU'RE WELL AWARE THAT BOTH THE CITY ORDINANCE AND THE FIRE AND POLICE BOARD ORDINANCE SAY YOU CAN'T HAVE THE ONE AGREEMENT, RIGHT? YEAH, THAT'S WHY PUZZLED ME WHEN YOU OFFERED ME A SECOND ONE IN THE, IN THE, AND THAT WAS TO TRY TO COMPROMISE THIS MATTER, IS THAT CORRECT? I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS FOR.
YOU WENT TO A PRETERM HEARING ON SEPTEMBER 27TH, IS THAT CORRECT? PROBABLY SO.
AND YOU WERE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO STATE YOUR POSITION, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, MA'AM.
AND THEN SUBSEQUENT TO THAT, THE CHIEF GAVE YOU HIS DETERMINATION THAT YOU WERE GONNA BE TERMINATED, CORRECT? YES, MA'AM.
I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.
THIS, THIS CIVIL SERVICE BOARD RULE THAT MS. GI KEPT REFERRING TO, THAT THEY WERE TERM AS AN ORDINANCE.
WAS THAT POSTED AT ANY STATION HOUSE THAT YOU WORKED AT? NO MA'AM.
AND WAS IT EVER GIVEN TO YOU PRIOR TO YOUR PRE TERMINATION NOTICE IN YOUR 27 YEARS OF EMPLOYMENT, WAS THIS EVER GIVEN TO YOU? LIKE, HEY, THIS IS A RULE YOU NEED TO ABIDE BY? NO, SIR.
DOES THE BOARD HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. DAVIS? I HAVE MR. DAVIS USE THE MICROPHONE.
UM, ASSUMING, UH, I'M ASSUMING THAT WAS AN AGREEMENT WHERE YOU HAD TO SUBMIT TO RANDOM DRUG TESTING AFTER YOUR, UH, FIRST POSITIVE DRUG SCREEN.
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT 99? YES, SIR.
SO THROUGHOUT THAT TIME YOU WERE TESTED? YES, MA'AM.
AND EVERYTHING WAS NEGATIVE? CORRECT.
UM, HOW HAS YOUR JOB, HAS THIS, UH, AFFECTED YOUR JOB PERFORMANCE IN ANY WAY SINCE YOU'VE BEEN PRESCRIBED THIS AMER MARIJUANA? THE, SAY THE FIRST PART OF YOUR QUESTION ONE MORE TIME.
UH, SINCE YOU'VE BEEN TAKING IN, HAS IT, UH, AFFECTED YOUR JOB PERFORMANCE IN ANY WAY? NO, MA'AM.
YOU, YOU HAVEN'T HAD ANY COMPLAINTS ABOUT YOUR JOB PERFORMANCE? NO, MA'AM.
UM, SINCE YOUR, UM, YOUR FAILED TEST IN 99 THAT YOU SAID THAT WAS FOR RECREATIONAL USE, AT WHAT POINT DID THE NEED COME ABOUT IN BETWEEN THOSE 20 ODD YEARS BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, BEFORE IT BECAME THE, THE, THE NEED BASED UPON THE P S D AND THE CHRONIC PAIN? WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN? UM, WHAT I TAKE, WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ME IS BASICALLY WHEN DID MY PTS D SET IN? AND IT'S HARD FOR ME TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT INCIDENT KICKED
[01:05:01]
IT IN, IN, IN, IN GEAR.I KNOW THAT, UH, I MADE A CALL JUST LIKE TWO YEARS INTO MY CAREER AT ONE POINT, AND IT WAS A WRECK ON GREENVILLE SPRINGS ROAD WITH, UH, FOUR VEHICLES THAT WERE FULLY INVOLVED.
AND THE FIRST ONE I PUT OUT THERE WAS A BODY IN IT.
UM, I KNOW FOR 15 YEARS AFTER THAT, WHEN I PASSED DOWN GREENVILLE SPRINGS ROAD, I COULD SMELL THE SMELLS OF THAT NIGHT.
UM, I, I, I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT HAS BROUGHT IT ON.
YOU KNOW WHAT, WHAT, I CAN'T SAY ANY PARTICULAR CALL THAT'S BROUGHT IT ON.
WELL, I WAS, I WAS SPECIFICALLY SPEAKING TO THE POINT WHERE YOU COULD NO LONGER TAKE IT AND SOUGHT OTHER, WAS THAT 20 YEARS LATER THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME YOU SOUGHT IT? UM, MEDICAL TREATMENT FOR THAT ISSUE? I HAVE TRIED OTHER OVER-THE-COUNTER SOLUTIONS TO IT BEFORE 2020.
AND WHAT I FOUND WAS WHEN I WOULD TAKE THOSE, WHEN I WOKE UP THE NEXT MORNING, UH, MY HEAD WAS GROGGY.
I WAS, IT, IT WOULD TAKE ME FIVE AND SIX HOURS TO WAKE UP, UH, BECAUSE I, I COULDN'T FUNCTION THE NEXT DAY AFTER TAKING THAT TYPE OF MEDICATION.
AND THEN IN 2020 WHEN I WAS, UH, I, I'VE TALKED ABOUT MY CONDITION WITH, WITH SEVERAL, A LOT OF DIFFERENT FIREMEN.
AND IN 2020, UM, WE WERE, I WAS DISCUSSING IT WITH, UH, WHO'S NOW THE CHIEF ADMINISTRATION, UH, SHANE SPIELMAN.
AND WE, WE WERE DISCUSSING IT, UH, AT THE STATION AND HE, HE'S THE ONE THAT GAVE ME THE INFORMATION ON HOW TO GET, UH, A PRESCRIPTION FOR MEDICAL MARIJUANA.
SO, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT'S, THAT'S WHEN IT STARTED WITH ME, WITH, WITH THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA.
AND OTHER THAN THE CONVERSATION WITH CHIEF KIMBALL, THAT WAS THE ONLY CONVERSATION WITH ANY SUPERVISOR ABOUT WHAT YOU WERE TRYING TO DO? I HAD DISCUSSIONS AROUND STATIONS WITH DIFFERENT, WELL, I I'M TALKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT SUPERVISION.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE A SUPERVISION ALL SUPERVISOR? UM, YEAH.
THOSE, THOSE WERE THE ONLY ADMINISTRATION THAT I'VE TALKED TO ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR THING IN THE PAST.
UH, I'VE GONE TO THE ADMINISTRATION FOR SOMETHING AND BASICALLY WAS TOLD BY, WAS TOLD BY DEPUTY CHIEF TO FIGURE IT OUT.
WHEN I WENT TO HIM WITH A PROBLEM, HE WAS BASICALLY TOLD ME TO FIGURE IT OUT.
SO THAT TAUGHT ME IF I HAVE A ISSUE THAT I FEEL I NEED ADVICE FROM HEADQUARTERS ON, I REALLY CAN'T GO TO 'EM AND ASK THEM ABOUT IT BECAUSE THE LAST TIME I DID THAT, THEY SAID FIGURE IT OUT.
AND IT WAS A FAIRLY, UM, IMPORTANT PROBLEM IN MY MIND ANYWAY THAT I WENT TO 'EM WITH.
I'D LIKE TO COME BACK, BACK TO ME.
UH, ANYBODY ELSE HAVE A QUESTION? ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? WE'LL, I, I'M SORRY, I HAVE JUST ONE MORE.
WHEN WAS YOUR LAST POSITIVE CORRECTION NEGATIVE DRUG SCREEN PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER, 2022? HMM.
IT'D BE THE LAST TIME THEY, THEY RANDOM TESTED ME AND IT WOULD PROBABLY BE SOMEWHERE BEFORE 2020.
UH, I REALLY CAN'T SAY WHEN THE LAST TIME.
YOU DON'T REMEMBER THE DEPARTMENT DRUG TESTED ME BEFORE THE TEST OF SEPTEMBER, WHATEVER IT WAS.
ANY OTHER WITNESSES? MR. KERSHAW? OH, TODD, YOU CAN STEP AWAY.
WE WANTED TO CALL A REBUTTAL WITNESS.
HEY, TOM TODD, CHIEF STATE YOUR NAME AND POSITION FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE.
[01:10:01]
FIRE CHIEF FOR THE BAT ROUGE FIRE DEPARTMENT.AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN THE FIRE CHIEF? UH, A LITTLE OVER A YEAR AND FOUR MONTHS.
WOULD YOU EXPLAIN TO THE BOARD THE ACCESS THAT THE FIREFIGHTERS AND CAPTAINS HAVE TO THE, UH, MANUALS AS WELL AS THE MUNICIPAL ORDINANCE? YES, ON THE CITY PARISH WEBSITE, A METRO NET THAT ALL THE FIREHOUSES HAVE ACCESS TO, UH, ON THEIR COMPUTERS, THERE IS A LINK FOR FIRE DEPARTMENT AND IT HAS ALL OF OUR, UM, DOCUMENTS THAT MUST BE FILLED OUT.
THEIR, UH, CHECK SHEETS, UH, THEY NEED OFF WITH RELIEF, ANY TYPE OF DOCUMENTATION TO SHOW, TO SEND IT TO HEADQUARTERS, AS WELL AS THERE'S SOME LINKS ON THERE TO CIVIL SERVICE RULES AND REGULATIONS.
THE DRUG WORKFORCE, UH, DOCUMENT IS ON THERE AS WELL.
AND IN ORDER TO BE A CAPTAIN, DO YOU HAVE TO USE THAT, THAT WEBSITE TO DO YOUR WORK AND YOUR PAPERWORK? THAT IS ONE OF THE ELEMENTS HE HAS TO USE, MA'AM.
UM, NOW YOU HEARD TESTIMONY REGARDING A CONVERSATION YOU HAD WITH THE EMPLOYEE.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.
WOULD YOU TELL THE BOARD WHAT Y'ALL DISCUSSED AND ALSO GIVE, UH, RESPOND TO THE TIMEFRAME HE ALLUDED TO.
UM, CAPTAIN DAVID HAD CALLED ME SOMETIME PRIOR TO THAT WANTING TO SPEAK.
UH, TIMELINE DIDN'T ADD UP FOR US TO TALK.
WE HIS HEAD HEADQUARTERS, AND, UH, HE SAID, I GOT SOMETHING FOR YOU.
UH, HE BROUGHT ME SOME SAUSAGE AND UH, WALKED OUT TO HIS TRUCK AND WAS HAVING A CONVERSATION.
AND HE HAD BEEN OFF FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
UM, TALKED ABOUT THE, WHAT WAS GOING ON IN LIFE AND THE NEW JOB AND WHATNOT.
CAUSE I JUST RECENTLY BEEN APPOINTED.
AND THEN HE BROUGHT UP THAT THE SITUATION WITH HIS USE OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA AND, UH, TOLD HIM, I SAID, TODD, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
AND HE BROUGHT UP ABOUT THE CONVERSATION THAT WE DID HAVE, IN FACT, A, A GROUP OF MEN AND, AND WOMEN COME MEET WITH ME DISCUSSING THE USE OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA AT THE TIME.
IT'S THE ORDINANCE OF THE CITY PARISH AND THE MUNICIPAL FIRING POLICE.
IT'S NOT MY RULE, I JUST HAVE TO ENFORCE THE RULE.
UH, HAD THAT CONVERSATION, TOLD HIM HE WAS GONNA PUT ME IN A BAD SPOT, AND HE SAID, I UNDERSTAND THAT BY GOD DUE TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF.
AND THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH TO SOME OF THAT STORY.
NOW HE ALLUDED TO THE FACT THAT YOU HAD THIS CONVERSATION AND THEN THE NEXT DAY HE WENT BACK TO WORK.
HE GOT, SO HE COME BACK TO WORK AND I DON'T KNOW THE DATE THAT WE HAD THE, UH, DISCUSSION BY PULLING HIS STATUS GRID, UH, SHOWING HIS WORKFORCE, HE COME BACK, HE WAS OFFERED AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME ON VACATION.
UH, I THINK SOME OF IT WAS ALSO SICK INDEED.
IN FACT, HE COME BACK TO WORK ONE DAY IN THERE.
WHEN HE DID RETURN BACK TO WORK WAS ON SEPTEMBER THE 12TH, I BELIEVE.
THAT WAS NOT A TEST GIVEN BY THE VETERINARY FIRE DEPARTMENT.
HE WAS ON A RANDOM THROUGH THE LOTTERY OF THE PROCESS.
HE WAS PULLED THROUGH A RANDOM, HE WAS ALSO PREVIOUSLY PULLED ABOUT FIVE TIMES IN THE LAST YEAR, BUT HE WAS NOT AT WORK THE DAY OF THE TEST.
SO DID WE PUT TODD DAVID ON THAT LIST? THE ANSWER IS NO.
AND YOU DON'T PLAY ANY PART IN HOW THE RANDOMS SELECTED, CORRECT? NOT AT ALL.
THAT COMES FROM ANOTHER PARTY.
OUR PARTY CALLS THE, UH, SAFETY DIVISION OR EMAILS A SAFETY DIVISION OR NOTIFIES THEM IN SOME FASHION WITH, UH, SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS AND THEY PULL IT FROM THERE, SEE WHO'S ON DUTY AND WHO'S NOT ON DUTY.
THERE'S DAYS THAT THE TEST IS GIVEN THAT THE LOTTERY'S PULLED AND NOBODY'S ON DUTY THAT DAY.
BUT IT'S YOUR UNDERSTANDING, IF THEY PULL HIM AND HE'S NOT TESTED THAT DAY, HE GOES BACK ONTO THE LIST TO BE TESTED, BRANDON.
HE GOES BACK INTO THE POOL AND HIS NAME GETS PULLED ON ANOTHER DAY.
HE DOES NOT STAY ON THE LIST UNTIL HE COMES BACK TO WORK.
HE GOES BACK IN THE POOL AND THEY PULL HIM AT ANOTHER TIME.
NOW, BEFORE YOU MADE YOUR DECISION, YOU REVIEWED THE PRIOR REHAB AGREEMENT HE WAS GIVEN.
AND THAT WAS BACK IN 1999, CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.
AND DID YOU UNDERSTAND THAT PURSUANT TO THAT AGREEMENT, THE MUNICIPAL FIRE POLICE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD, DRUG-FREE WORKPLACE ORDINANCE WAS REFERENCED IN, IN THAT AND THAT HE DID THIS AGREEMENT PURSUANT TO THAT ORDINANCE? CORRECT.
AND ISN'T IT TRUE THAT IN FACT HE WOULD'VE BEEN FIRED HAD HE HAND HAD HE DEALT WITH THE CITY ORDINANCE, MEANING THE NON FIRING POLICE? THAT IS CORRECT.
AND TODAY HE WOULD STILL BE FIRED AS OPPOSED TO GIVING A REHAB AGREEMENT UNDER THE CITY ORDINANCE VERSUS THE FIRE AND POLICE BOARD? YES, MA'AM.
NOW, WHEN HE CAME TO THE PRETERM
[01:15:01]
HEARING, YOU HEARD HIS SIDE OF THE STORY, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, MA'AM.AND AFTER THAT, AND HIS ALLEGING OF THE CONTINUED CONFUSION, YOU DECIDED TO OFFER HIM A REHAB AGREEMENT, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.
AND WAS THAT ALSO COUPLED WITH THE FACT THAT YOU WOULD WORK JOINTLY WITH THE UNION TO COME BEFORE THE BOARD AND TO ASK THEM TO LOOK AT THE ORDINANCE AND MAKE SOME DECISIONS ON IT DUE TO THE FACT THERE WAS PEOPLE THAT KEPT SAYING THEY WERE CONFUSED, COULD THEY OR COULD THEY NOT DO THAT? AND IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING AND NOW WAS A TIME THAT WE COULD BRING IT BACK FORTH TO SAY, HEY, CAN WE GET SOME CLARIFICATION? AND NOW THIS CONFUSION HAD CAME ABOUT BY THE UNION PRESIDENT'S INTERPRETATIONS, YOU KNOW, OF THE SAME OBJECTION AS FAR AS LEADING.
UM, I LET THE SUSTAIN QUESTIONS GO, BUT SHE'S TESTIFYING.
WOULD YOU EXPLAIN HOW THIS CONFUSION CAME ABOUT DUE TO THE FACT THAT, UH, MR. DAVID SAID THAT HE HAS A PRESCRIPTION AND THAT AS LONG AS HE HAS A PRESCRIPTION, HE CAN USE MARIJUANA.
AND HAD YOU SPOKEN WITH THE UNION OR ANYONE ELSE ABOUT THIS ISSUE? WE HAD SEVERAL CONVERSATIONS, YES, MA'AM.
AND WHAT DID YOU MAKE IT CLEAR THAT UNDER THE CURRENT ORDINANCE, THE STATUS WAS, I MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT UNDER THE CURRENT RULES AND REGULATIONS AND THE ORDINANCE OF THE FIRE, POLICE CIVIL SERVICE, THAT IT WAS NOT ALLOWED.
DID YOU HAVE OTHER INSTANCES OF INDIVIDUALS IN SIMILAR SITUATIONS, UH, THAT YOU ALLOWED TO HAVE A REHAB AGREEMENT? REPEAT THAT ONE MORE TIME, PLEASE.
DID YOU HAVE OTHER SITUATIONS OF OTHER INDIVIDUALS THAT YOU OFFERED THEM SE UH, SIMILAR COMPROMISES? YES, MA'AM.
AND THEY SIGNED THE REHAB AGREEMENT, CORRECT? CORRECT.
WHO DO YOU HAVE IN YOUR DEPARTMENT WHO CAN EXPLAIN ALL THESE DRUG-FREE WORKPLACE, UH, ORDINANCES AND THE RULES THAT THEY HAVE TO ABIDE BY? SAY THAT ONE MORE TIME.
I SAID, WHO IN, IN YOUR DEPARTMENT HANDLES THE DRUG-FREE WORKPLACE RULES AND CAN EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHAT THE RULES ARE? UH, SUPERVISORS.
UH, DO Y'ALL HAVE ANY DEPARTMENT THAT IN PARTICULAR DEALS WITH THE REHAB AGREEMENTS? THE SAFETY DIVISION.
AND WHEN, UH, MR. DAVID WENT THROUGH HIS THREE YEARS OF REHAB, HE DEALT WITH THE SAFETY DIVISION ON A REGULAR BASIS? CORRECT? THAT WOULD, THAT'D BE MY UNDERSTANDING.
I WAS NOT EMPLOYED AT THE TIME.
YOU HEARD MR. UH, DAVID'S TESTIMONY.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO RESPOND TO? NO, MA'AM.
I WOULD GENDER INRE? YEAH, JUST A FEW.
CHIEF KIMBALL, UM, ISN'T IT TRUE THAT THE DEPARTMENT PROVIDES A HARD COPY OF A POLICY MANUAL TO ALL EMPLOYEE NEW EMPLOYEES WITH THE DEPARTMENT? ARE YOU SAY THAT, ARE YOU ASKING DO WE PROVIDE THEM WITH A A HARD COPY? YES, SIR, WE DO.
Y'ALL PROVIDE THEM WITH A HARD COPY OF CIVIL SERVICE BOARD RULES? YES, SIR.
DURING, WHEN THEY WERE HIRED, WE PROVIDE THEM WITH THE RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE BATON ROUGE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
DO YOU ALSO PROVIDE THEM WITH A COPY OF CIVIL SERVICE BOARD RULES? I'M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU.
I KNOW THEY, THEY ARE ADVISED IN, GIVEN THE DOCUMENTS FOR THE DRUG FREE OKAY.
WORKPLACE THAT THEY ARE GIVEN AT WHEN THEY, UH, FIRST DAY OF, UH, OR SECOND DAY OF HIRE.
AND YOU'RE AS THE CHIEF, YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH YOUR OWN POLICY MANUAL, CORRECT? YES, SIR.
AND AREN'T YOU AWARE THAT SECTION 4.33 OF YOUR POLICY MANUAL, WHICH IS ENTITLED CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES, READS THAT NO MEMBER ON OR OFF DUTY SHALL CONSUME OR POSSESS ANY CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE EXCEPT THOSE OBTAINED WITH A VALID PRESCRIPTION PRESCRIBED BY A LICENSED PHYSICIAN FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES? THAT'S WHAT IT STATES.
DOES THAT IN YOUR MIND, CONTRADICT THIS CIVIL SERVICE BOARD RULE THAT IS AT PLAY HERE TODAY? WELL, LET, LET ME OBJECT.
HE'S ASKING HIM FOR A LEGAL CONCLUSION.
I KNOW HE ASKED HIS K CLIENT FOR THAT DUDE.
BUT YOU CAN WRITE WELL, AND, AND HERE'S THE THING.
[01:20:01]
THINK WE'RE GONNA MAKE LEGAL ARGUMENTS AND THAT THAT'S NOT FOR THE WITNESSES TO, AS THE PERSON WHO RENDERS THE HATCHET FOR THIS INTERPRETATION, HE NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO INTERPRET THAT TO THE EXTENT YOU'RE ASKING HIM FOR A LEGAL CONCLUSION.YOU CAN ASK HIM WHAT HIS UNDERSTANDING IS OF IT MM-HMM.
SO BASED ON THE WORDING OF 4.33, DOES THAT TELL YOU, AS LONG AS THE EMPLOYEE HAS A PRESCRIPTION FOR ANY CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE, THEN, AND HE'S VAL, HE'S, IT'S A VALID PRESCRIPTION BY HIS LICENSED DOCTOR AND THAT HE'S ALLOWED TO TAKE IT.
IS THAT WHAT THAT SAYS TO YOU? IT STATES THAT MM-HMM.
WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT IN YOUR POLICY? MANUAL SECTION 4.34.
WHERE DOES IT MENTION MARIJUANA IN 4.34 UNDER THE DRUG-FREE WORKFORCE? WHEN YOU PULL THE ORDINANCE, IT STATES THAT, SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CITY PARISH ORDINANCE 9 4 51 ENTITLED DRUG-FREE WORKFORCE.
I'M REFERRING TO THE ORDINANCE OF THE FIRE AND POLICE CIVIL SERVICE.
YOU MEAN THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD RULE? YES.
YOU'RE REFERRING TO THAT, BUT THAT'S NOT IN HERE.
IS IT MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE 9 4 51 WORKFORCE IS THAT ADOPTION.
UM, NOW ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE CITY PARISH ACTUALLY DOES HAVE A DRUG-FREE WORKFORCE ORDINANCE ON MUNI CODE? YES, SIR.
AND ARE YOU AWARE THAT THAT SAME ORDINANCE BASICALLY READS THE SAME AS THAT PREVIOUS SECTION? THAT AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A VALID PRESCRIPTION, YOU'RE WITHIN THE RULES TO TAKE IT? LET ME OBJECT.
THE QUESTION ASKED, UH, IS RELIANT UPON A FACT NOT IN EVIDENCE.
IN FACT, THE, THE ORDINANCE WILL SHOW THAT IT'S NOT, DOES NOT READ THE SAME WELL, THE, THE CURRENT ORDINANCE, THE DRUG FREE WORKFORCE ORDINANCE THAT IS EMPLOYED BY THE CITY OF PARISH THAT'S ON MUNI CODE THAT ANYBODY CAN GO ON GOOGLE AND PULL UP MUNI CODE IS ONE OF OUR, WAS ATTACHED TO OUR STIPULATION.
IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS GONNA BE SOMETHING Y'ALL GONNA ARGUE ABOUT AN ARGUMENT.
RIGHT? HE'S SAYING, I FIGURED THESE TWO READ THE SAME.
AND I'M SAYING IF YOU READ 'EM BOTH, THEY DON'T READ THE SAME.
BUT HE'S ASKING HIM BASED UPON THE PREMISE THAT THEY READ THE SAME, WHICH IS NOT TRUE.
AND CHIEF, THE, THE QUESTION IS, IN THAT INDIRECT DRUG-FREE WORKFORCE ORDINANCE THAT WE'RE REFERRING, THAT WAS ATTACHED TO OUR STIPULATIONS, IS THERE AN EXCEPTION FROM MARIJUANA? NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
UM, AND IN FACT, IT THEN, GOING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION, AS LONG AS YOU'VE GOT A VALID PRESCRIPTION ON THAT ORDINANCE, VALID PRESCRIPTION FROM A DOCTOR, THEN YOU CAN TAKE IT.
IS THAT CORRECT? AGAIN, IS OUR, MY UNDERSTANDING THAT'S WHAT GOT US TO THIS POINT, WAS THAT MARIJUANA WAS NOT ALLOWED.
BUT THAT'S NOT ALLOWED PURSUANT TO THE BATON ROUGE CITY ORDINANCE OR NOT ALLOWED PURSUANT TO CIVIL SERVICE BOARD RULE? HE'S BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED AT NUMEROUS TIMES.
UM, SO YOU SAY THAT THE, THIS ORDINANCE OR THE, THE RULE, THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD RULE, WOULD BE AVAILABLE TO YOUR EMPLOYEES BY WAY OF METRONET? THAT IS CORRECT.
BUT YOU ALREADY SAID THAT THE HARD COPY IS A HARD COPY POSTED AT THE STATION HOUSES? I CAN'T TELL YOU IF THEY ARE.
UM, SO YOU HAVE NO REASON TO DISAGREE WITH, UM, MR. DAVID THAT THIS WASN'T POSTED IN ANY OF HIS STATION HOUSES? UH, AGAIN, I'M NOT SURE IF THEY'RE POSTED OR NOT.
UM, AND IF IT'S NOT, THE HARD COPY IS NOT POSTED AT THE STATION HOUSES, AND IF IT'S NOT GIVEN TO, WELL, FOR HIM BACK IN 19 94, 90 97, I'M SORRY, WHEN HE, WHEN HE BEGAN HIS EMPLOYMENT, UM, IT WOULD TAKE HIM THEN TO GO ONLINE OR GO ON THIS, THIS SITE THAT THIS METRONET TO BE ABLE TO FIND IT.
IS THAT RIGHT? I WOULD SAY SO, YES.
UM, AND THE RULE, SO YOU, YOU ARE NOT RE UM, YOU'RE RELYING ON ENFORCEMENT OF THIS CIVIL SERVICE BOARD RULE TO JUSTIFY YOUR TERMINATION OR THE TERMINATION OF MR. DAVID, IS THAT RIGHT? BY THE RULES AND THE ORDINANCE, BUT SAYS
[01:25:01]
WE MUST FOLLOW UHHUHAND SAYS, YOU MUST FOLLOW THOSE RULES BECAUSE HE DID NOT PASS THE DRUG TEST AND THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION.
WE TRIED WORKING ON MR. DAVID TO TRY TO COME BACK TO THE BOARD.
DID YOU DISCUSS THAT AT HIS PRETERM HEARING OR AT HIS TERMINATION HEARING? IT WAS BEFORE THE PRE TERMINATION HEARING, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY.
SO IT WASN'T RECORDED THEN? WAS NOT RECORDED.
UM, SO, BUT YOU'RE RELYING ON THIS CIVIL SERVICE BOARD RULE IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY THE TERMINATION OF MR. DAVID, IS THAT RIGHT? CORRECT.
NOT SECTION 4.33 OF YOUR POLICY.
THAT WAS PART, ALL OF THAT IS ALL INCLUDED.
THE RULES AND REGULATIONS AS WELL AS THE ORDINANCE.
AND YOU SAID THAT YOU MUST FOLLOW THOSE RULES? CORRECT.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU OFFERED HIM A SECOND REHABILITATION CONTRACT? I DID.
SO THAT BE IN VIOLATION OF THOSE SAME RULES YOU'RE RELYING ON? IS THAT RIGHT? IN TRYING TO, TALKING WITH MY ATTORNEY, IT WAS A PROCESS OF TRYING TO WORK AN AGREEMENT TO WHERE WE COULD COME AND GET THAT THERE WAS SOME CONCERNS AND THEY NEEDED CLARIFICATION BECAUSE THERE WAS ISSUES GOING ON.
THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE.
ANY, UH, REDIRECT? NO, YOU'RE FREE TO GO.
Y'ALL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I'M GONNA ASK YOU, Y'ALL, DOES THE BOARD HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR CHIEF KIMBER? CHIEF? YES, MA'AM.
WAS MR. DAVIS'S JOB PERFORMANCE EXPECTED IN ANY WAY BY HIS USE OF THIS MARIAL MARIJUANA? NOT AT ALL.
UM, ANY OTHER REBUTTAL? WELL, I, I'LL HAVE ONE FOLLOW UP QUESTION.
I'M GONNA LET IT, I'LL LET IT GO.
I'LL JUST, IT'LL JUST START TO UNDER.
ANY MORE QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD AT THIS, AT THIS TIME? I'D LIKE TO TAKE A 10 MINUTE RECESS AND, UM, GO AHEAD.
I, SO WE'LL CO CONVENE YOU BACK AT 1248.
UH, COUNSEL, I UNDERSTAND THAT THE CHAIRMAN WANTS TO DO CLOSING ARGUMENTS, LIMITED TO 10 MINUTES A PIECE.
I'D LIKE TO, AT THIS TIME CALL THE, UH, MEETING BACK TO ORDER, UM, CLOSING ARGUMENTS.
WE'D LIKE TO DO CLOSING ARGUMENTS.
EACH SIDE HAS ABOUT 10 MINUTES, UH, TO GIVE THEIR CLOSING ARGUMENTS.
SO I'M GONNA GO BACK AND TRY TO CLEAR UP SOME OF THE CONFUSION THAT PERHAPS HAS GONE ON DURING THE HEARING.
FIRST, UM, UNFORTUNATELY I WAS AROUND IN 1992, UH, WHEN ALL OF THIS STARTED.
AND ORDINANCE 94 51, WHICH IS ATTACHMENT NUMBER SEVEN, OKAY? THAT IS THE ORIGINAL ORDINANCE.
THAT ORDINANCE WAS PASSED BY THE METRO COUNCIL AND IT INCLUDED BOTH REGULAR CIVIL SERVICE EMPLOYEES AND FIRE AND POLICE EMPLOYEES.
THE COURT THEN INTERVENED BECAUSE THE UNION, UH, HAD REQUESTED AND SAID THEY DIDN'T THINK THAT THE COUNCIL COULD DICTATE THEIR RULES.
SO THE COURTS INTERVENED AND SAID, YOU'RE RIGHT, ONLY THIS BOARD CAN DICTATE THE RULES.
THE COUNCIL CAN'T DICTATE THE DISCIPLINARY RULE.
SO THEN THIS WENT BEFORE THE FIRE POLICE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD.
AND IN FACT, I THINK MS. SRU PULLED THE MINUTES AND IT WENT ON FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS, ARGUING ABOUT HOW THIS BOARD WAS GONNA HANDLE 94 51, WHICH WAS THE ORIGINAL ORDINANCE FOR THE CITY.
CUZ IT HAD TO ADOPT ITS OWN RULES.
THIS BOARD DID THAT IN MARCH OF 94.
AND IT WAS FOR THE MOST PART THE SAME AS 94 51.
BUT NUMBER ONE, IT ONLY APPLIED TO FIRE AND POLICE.
AND NUMBER TWO, IT WAS ACTUALLY MORE LENIENT THAN THE CITY ORDINANCE.
THE MAIN LENIENCY BEING THAT IF A NON-LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER TESTED POSITIVE FOR MARIJUANA, THEY GOT A REHAB AGREEMENT INSTEAD OF GOTTEN FIRED.
SO OF COURSE THERE WAS A BIG DISPUTE BECAUSE THE D P W
[01:30:01]
EMPLOYEE WHO TESTED POSITIVE FOR MARIJUANA WAS BEING FIRED.BUT THE FIREMEN WHO TESTED POSITIVE FOR MARIJUANA WAS GETTING A REHAB AGREEMENT.
OKAY? SO THAT'S HOW IT WAS BACK IN 1994.
AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED IS, NUMBER EIGHT, ORDINANCES 98 77 CAME AROUND IN APRIL OF 94, AND THAT'S WHERE THE COUNCIL TOOK OUT THE FIRE AND POLICE FROM UNDER THEIR ORDINANCE.
SO WE HAD 94 51 THAT INCLUDED EVERYBODY.
WE HAD THE COURT SAYING, THE BOARD HAS TO RULE.
WE HAD THE BOARD ADOPTING A MODIFIED 94 51, AND THEN YOU HAD THE COUNCIL COMING IN AND CHANGING FROM 94 51 TO 98 77, WHICH EXCLUDED FIRE AND POLICE.
SO THAT'S THE BACKGROUND OF HOW WE GOT HERE.
AND SINCE 1994, THE MUNICIPAL FIRE AND POLICE BOARD DRUG FREE ORDINANCE HAS APPLIED TO FIRE AND POLICE.
IT IS ESSENTIALLY THE SAME AS THE 94 51.
IT'S YOUR MODIFIED VERSION OF IT.
AND IT GIVES THOSE, UH, LENIENCY RULES TO FIREFIGHTERS IN PARTICULAR THAT ISN'T IN THE, THE COUNCIL ORDINANCE.
SO THAT, THAT'S THE BACKGROUND OF IT, I THINK THAT Y'ALL ALL NEED TO UNDERSTAND.
SO THEY KEEP REFERENCING 94 51 CUZ THAT'S HOW THE BOARD MODIFIED 94 51.
NOW, THE NEXT THING THAT HAPPENED IN THE TIME SEQUENCE IS MR. DAVI HIMSELF TESTED POSITIVE IN 99 AND HE GOT THE BENEFIT OF THE BOARD MODIFIED 94 51, WHICH GAVE LENIENT SEAT OF FIREFIGHTERS.
HAD WE ONLY HAD THE CITY ORDINANCE, HE'D BEEN FIRED BACK THEN, BUT HE GOT THE REGAV AGREEMENT IN 1999.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE TERMS, THAT'S YOUR NUMBER TWO.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE TERMS IT SAYS HE VIOLATED, HE ACKNOWLEDGES THAT HE VIOLATED THAT ORDINANCE.
SO YOU HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, QUESTION THE CREDIBILITY OF SOMEONE WHO SAYS, I NEVER KNEW IT EXISTED, BUT I GOT THE BENEFIT OF IT IN 99.
AND I SIGNED AN AGREEMENT SAYING I WAS FOLLOWING IT AND I KNEW IT.
AND HE WENT THROUGH THE THREE YEARS AND ALL THESE THINGS THAT WERE ONLY CONTAINED IN THE BOARD RULE.
SO WE GO ALONG FOR YEARS AND THE ISSUE OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA COMES UP.
NOW, IF WE LOOK AT OUR EXHIBIT ONE, WHICH IS THE BOARD'S RULE, AND YOU TURN TO PAGE FIVE, IT SAYS ALL CITY PARISH EMPLOYEES.
AND IN THE BEGINNING IT DEFINES EMPLOYEES AS FIRE, POLICE, EMPLOYEES WORKING OR AFFORDING FOR WORK UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF THE DRUG.
AND THAT IS ONE THING I WANTED TO POINT OUT.
YOU CAN'T COME UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF THE DRUG, WHICH MEANS IF HE CAN TAKE MEDICAL MARIJUANA AT HOME AND NOT TEST POSITIVE AT WORK, NOBODY'S GONNA TELL HIM WHAT TO DO.
WHAT HE CAN'T DO IS TEST POSITIVE AT WORK.
AND I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE SAYING, I NEVER TESTED POSITIVE AT WORK FOR, FOR MEDICAL MARIJUANA.
YOU TESTED POSITIVE CUZ ON THE DAY YOU TOOK THE TEST, YOU WERE OVER THE LIMITS.
SO WORKING OR REPORTING FOR WORK UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ANY DRUG OR WITH A SUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF THE DRUG OR METABOLITE THEREOF IN THEIR SYSTEMS TO RESULT IN A POSITIVE TEST HAS DEFINED IN ONE COLON 2 51, UNLESS THE DRUG WAS OBTAINED DIRECTLY OR PURSUANT TO A VALID PRESCRIPTION OR ORDER FROM A PRACTITIONER AS PROVIDED IN LOUISIANA, ADVISED STATUTE 49 78 OR 40 12 39, WHILE ACTING IN THE COURSE AND SCOPE.
SO IT HAS EXCEPTIONS FOR PRESCRIPTIONS, BUT IT HAS TWO EXCEPTIONS, THESE TWO STATUTES.
NOW THOSE STATUTES ARE NOT THE MARIJUANA MEDICAL MARIJUANA STATUTE BECAUSE GUESS WHAT? THIS WAS BACK IN 94 THAT DIDN'T EXIST.
THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA STATUTES THAT WERE PASSED RECENTLY ARE 49, 10 16.
SO NEITHER ONE OF THOSE ARE THE ONES REFERENCED IN HERE.
OKAY? SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE TWO, THE LAW AS IT'S WRITTEN BY THIS BOARD, GIVES YOU THOSE TWO EXCEPTIONS.
AND NEITHER ONE OF THOSE IS AN EXCEPTION FOR MEDICAL MARIJUANA.
NOR COULD IT HAVE BEEN BECAUSE IN 94 IT DIDN'T EXIST.
THIS BOARD DID NOT PASS SOMETHING GIVEN A MEDICAL MARIJUANA EXEMPTION, NOR HAS IT ACTED SINCE THE TIME ALL OF THAT HAPPENED.
I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT TO YOU THAT ALTHOUGH THE STATE HAS LAWS ALLOW FOR MEDICAL MARIJUANA, THEY TOO,
[01:35:01]
IN THEIR ORDINANCES, I'M SORRY, IN THEIR STATUTES HAVE SAID THAT FIREFIGHTERS AND SAFETY SENSITIVE PEOPLE ARE EXEMPT FROM NOT HAVING NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES.IN OTHER WORDS, THERE'S A STATE LAW THAT SAYS YOU CAN'T HAVE A NEGATIVE EMPLOYMENT CONSEQUENCE IF YOU'RE TAKING MEDICAL MARIJUANA PURSUANT TO A PRESCRIPTION.
UM, THEY EXEMPTED OUT THE, UM, SAFETY SENSITIVE AND THE FIREFIGHTERS FROM THAT CASE, WHICH MEANS A STATE EMPLOYEE WHO'S A FIREFIGHTER CAN'T USE MEDICAL MARIJUANA.
SO NONE OF THOSE THINGS HAVE COME TO THE BOARD.
THE ORDINANCE THAT YOU ADOPTED IS STILL IN LINE.
AND BY THE TERMS OF THE ORDINANCE, MEDICAL MARIJUANA IS NOT A VALID PRESCRIPTION.
NOW, WHEN THIS ALL CAME UP AND BECAME MORE POPULAR, I HAD UNION STAFF ATTORNEYS, WHOEVER CALLING AND SAYING, WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S MEDICAL MARIJUANA, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR OTHER ARGUMENTS AND ALL ON IT.
THAT'S WHEN I GET A CALL FROM MR. KYLE THAT SAYS, WELL, THE TERMS AND THE LANGUAGE IN THE CITY ORDINANCE IS DIFFERENT.
AND IT USES, IT DOESN'T HAVE TWO SPECIFIC STATUTES.
IT USES THE, UM, IT'S THE, EXCUSE ME, MR. DON, YOU HAVE ROUGHLY TWO MINUTES LEFT.
OKAY? UH, IT REFERENCES THE LAW IN GENERAL.
SO THEIR ARGUMENT IS, IF YOU USE THAT ONE, THEN MAYBE MEDICAL MARIJUANA IS AN EXCEPTION TOO.
UH, AND I WOULD CONTEND TO YOU THAT THAT ALL CAME TO BE WHEN IN FACT THESE ARGUMENTS STARTED MAKING THAT.
SO WE HAVE A PERSON WHO HAS TESTED POSITIVE UNDER YOUR PARTICULAR ORDINANCE IS PROHIBITED BY THE TERMS AND THE WORDS OF THE ORDINANCE.
THEY HAVE A PRIOR REHAB AGREEMENT, WHICH IT SHOWS BOTH TWICE IN YOUR ORDINANCE.
IT SAYS YOU CANNOT HAVE A SECOND AGREEMENT.
NOW, THE CHIEF DID OFFER AN OLIVE BRANCH AND SAID, LET'S LOOK AT A REHAB AGREEMENT.
WE'LL GO TO THE BOARD, WE'LL ASK THE BOARD TO REINTERPRET IT IF YOU THINK THE BOARD MIGHT HAVE SUCH INCLINATION.
IN OTHER WORDS, TRYING TO FIND SOMETHING TO LET THIS LONG-TERM EMPLOYEE KEEP THEIR JOB.
BUT THE LONG-TERM EMPLOYEE REFUSED AND THE LONG-TERM EMPLOYEE SAID, I'M GONNA KEEP TAKING IT.
I'M NOT GONNA SIGN A REHAB AGREEMENT CUZ I'M GONNA KEEP TAKING.
NOW THE CHIEF CANNOT LET THAT PERSON DEFY THE RULES AND THE ORDER OF THE BOARD.
AND NOR SHOULD THIS BOARD ALLOW THAT PERSON TO DO IT IS PROHIBITED.
WE MAY WANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT, BUT UNDER THE TERMS, UH, HE HAD TO TERMINATE THE EMPLOYEE.
AND I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT IN ORDER TO FOLLOW YOUR OWN RULES AND REGULATIONS, YOU SHOULD SUSTAIN THAT TERMINATION.
YEAH, YOUR 10 MINUTES AS WELL BOARD MEMBERS.
LET ME, UH, LET ME JUST ADDRESS, YOU KNOW, WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY, OKAY? LET'S JUST THINK ABOUT THE FAIRNESS OF THIS SITUATION AND WHAT THEY'RE, THE, THE DEPARTMENT WANTS YOU TO RELY ON A RULE THAT WAS PASSED BACK IN 1994 THAT MIND YOU, MR. DAVID DID NOT KNOW EXISTED.
IT WAS NOT GIVEN TO HIM WHEN HE CAME ONTO THE DEPARTMENT BACK IN 97.
UM, THE CHIEF DID NOT KNOW WHETHER OR NOT A HARD COPY HAS BEEN POSTED FOR EVERYBODY TO KNOW THAT THIS RULE EXISTED.
BUT MR. DAVIS SAID, HEY, WASN'T DID ANY OF MY STATION HOUSES.
THE THING IS, WHAT, WHAT DOES HE, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT OUT OF A REASONABLE PERSON? OKAY, WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT IN THIS THING? MR. DAVID TESTIFIED HE DID EVERYTHING THAT HE KNEW TO DO, UM, TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT HE WOULD STILL BE IN GOOD STANDING WITH HIS EMPLOYMENT MONEY.
WAS HE, HE'S BEEN THERE NOW FOR 20, UM, THE, UH, BE 22 YEARS, 25 YEARS, EXCUSE ME.
UM, SO WHAT WOULD HE, WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT? WHAT STANDARD WOULD YOU HOLD HIM TO? HE SAID, WELL, WHEN I REALIZED THAT THIS IS A MEDICATION THAT I WAS GONNA NEED, THAT THIS LOOKED LIKE IT WAS GOING TO SOLVE MY MEDICAL PROBLEM,
[01:40:01]
UM, I DID WHAT I THOUGHT I NEEDED TO DO.SO WHAT'S HE DO? FIRST THING, JUST LIKE HE WAS ADVISED, GO LOOK AT YOUR POLICY MANUAL.
THAT'S YOUR RULES, RIGHT? I MEAN, THOSE ARE THE RULES THAT ARE GIVEN TO YOU.
SO WHEN YOU START EMPLOYMENT, WHETHER IT BE AT SOUTHERN UNIVERSITY OR A CONSTRUCTION COMPANY FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, WHAT DO YOU THINK? WHAT IS EXPECTED OF YOU? WELL, MY RULES, MY POLICY MANUAL.
SO I WANT ME TO GO LOOK AT IT.
WHAT'S THE POLICY MANUAL? SAY SECTION 4.33.
AND I BELIEVE THIS IS, UM, EXHIBIT FIVE OF YOUR, OF THE STIPULATIONS.
IT SAYS, NO MEMBER ON OR OFF DUTY SHALL CONSUMER OR POSSESS ANY CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE EXCEPT THOSE OBTAINED WITH A VALID PRESCRIPTION PRESCRIBED BY A LICENSED PHYSICIAN FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES.
WELL, IN THAT, EXACTLY THE SITUATION THAT WE HAVE BEFORE US TODAY, WE HAVE A VALID PRESCRIPTION FOR MEDICAL PURPOSE FOR MR. DAVID TO USE, UH, MARIJUANA IN A THERAPEUTIC MANNER.
BUT I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT THIS SO THAT, UM, THAT, UM, THE RULE OF WHICH THEY REFER THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD RULE, THAT ONCE AGAIN WAS NOT PROVIDED TO MR. DAVID AT ANY TIME THAT HE DID NOT KNOW EXISTED.
SO THE RULE THAT THEY WANT YOU TO ENFORCE WAS PASSED BACK IN 94.
THIS IS SAYS ADOPTED BY THE METROPOLITAN COUNCIL JANUARY 8TH, 1997.
WELL, THERE'S NO EXCEPTION RIGHT THERE.
SO THIS IS THREE YEARS AFTER YOUR, YOUR RULE, UM, THAT THEY WANT YOU TO ENFORCE THREE YEARS AFTER THE COUNCIL PASSES THIS POLICY MANUAL.
AND THAT SPECIFIC RULE ALLOWS FOR THE USE OF ANY SCHEDULED DRUG.
AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A VALID PRESCRIPTION FROM YOUR DOCTOR, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE HERE, IT WOULD BE INHERENTLY UNFAIR TO HOLD HIM TO SOME RULE, SOME OBSCURE RULE THAT HE DIDN'T KNOW EXISTED.
AND, AND SO WHAT DID HE DO? LIKE I SAID, HE DIDN'T GO INTO THIS WILLY-NILLY, HE DIDN'T SAY, OKAY, WELL LEMME JUST GO GET A PRESCRIPTION.
THERE WAS A LEGITIMATE MEDICAL PURPOSE HERE.
UM, BUT BEFORE EVEN GOING CONSULTING WITH A DOCTOR SAY IF THIS WAS GONNA BE AN AVENUE OF TREATMENT, HE LOOKS AT HIS RULE BOOK.
WELL, THAT ONE SURELY INDICATES THAT AS LONG AS YOU GOT A VALID PRESCRIPTION, YOU'RE OKAY, YOU'LL BE WITHIN THE RULES.
THE NEXT RULE, THEY WANT YOU TO TAKE A LEAP HERE THAT, WELL, BECAUSE IT SAYS YOU MUST ADHERE TO THE CITY.
I MEAN CITY PARISH ORDINANCE, DRUG-FREE WORKFORCE, OKAY? NOW THERE'S A NUMBER THERE, BUT I WANT YOU TO GO, GO LOOK AT WHAT, IF YOU GO ON MUNI CODE THAT'S AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY, IF YOU GO ON MUNI CODE, THERE IS A DRUG-FREE WORKFORCE ORDINANCE THAT HAS BEEN EMPLOYED BY THE CITY PARISH.
WHILE I SUBMIT TO YOU THAT THERE, IT SAYS IT'S ONLY, IT ONLY APPLIES TO THOSE CITY PARISH EMPLOYEES AS DEFINED BY SECTION 9.02 OF THE PLAN GOVERNMENT.
I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S LEGAL TERMS AND THAT'S SOMETHING YOU'D EXPECT AN ATTORNEY TO JUMP TO, TO LOOK AT THAT.
BUT WHENEVER, WHENEVER A LAYPERSON WERE TO LOOK AT THAT ORDINANCE, IT WOULD APPLY, IT APPLIES TO ALL CITY PARISH EMPLOYEES.
WELL, OBVIOUSLY HE'S A, HE IS A CITY PARISH EMPLOYEE, MAYBE NOT BY THAT LEGAL DEFINITION, BUT ISN'T IT REASONABLE FOR HIM TO THINK THAT THIS APPLIES TO HIM? BECAUSE IT SAYS, UH, CITY PARISH EMPLOYEE MEANS ANY PERSON WITHIN THE PARISH OR CITY PERSONNEL SYSTEM AS DEFINED IN SECTION 9.2 OF PLANET GOVERNMENT.
SO FOR A LAYPERSON TO READ THAT, WHO IS A CITY PARISH EMPLOYEE, WHEN YOU ANTICIPATE THAT, THEY WOULD THINK, OKAY, THAT APPLIES TO YOU.
WELL, THEN WE GO LOOK AND SEE WHAT, ONCE AGAIN, THE ONLY ORDINANCES ON THE BOOKS FOR THE CITY COUNCIL THAT REFERS TO DRUG-FREE WORKFORCE, WHICH IS IN THE MANUAL, IT REFERS TO THE DRUG-FREE WORKFORCE ORDINANCE BY THE METRO, ADOPTED BY THE METRO COUNCIL.
SO IT REFERS TO THAT WELL, THAT THE ONLY ORDINANCE IS THIS, UH, IT'S UNDER TITLE, TITLE ONE, SECTION EIGHT.
AND THEN HERE WE HAVE SECTION 1 9 0 3 C.
YOU KNOW, BASICALLY YOU CANNOT WORK, REPORTS WORK ON THE INFLUENCE OR WITH A SUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF DRUG OR METABOLITE IN YOUR SYSTEM TO TEST POSITIVE UNLESS THE DRUG WAS OBTAINED DIRECTLY OR PURSUANT TO A VALID PRESCRIPTION OR ORDER FROM A PRACTITIONER, UM, AS PROVIDED IN THE CONTROLLED DANGEROUS SUBSTANCE LAW.
WELL, THE CONTROLLED DANGEROUS SUBSTANCE LAW ALLOWS FOR PRACTITIONERS, MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS TO PRESCRIBE MARIJUANA.
AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE HERE.
SO TWOFOLD, HE'S LOOKING AT HIS OWN POLICY MANUAL THAT SAYS, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A VALID PRESCRIPTION, THEN YOU'RE WITHIN THE RULES.
BUT THEN HE GOES AND LOOKS AT THE CITY ORDINANCE, THE MUNICIPAL ORDINANCE THAT ADDRESSES THIS, THE ONLY ONE IN ENTITLE, DRUG-FREE WORKFORCE.
[01:45:01]
IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS, AS LONG AS YOU GOT A VALID PRESCRIPTION, YOU'RE OKAY.THERE, THERE'S NO CONSEQUENCE.
SO I, I THINK IT WAS PRETTY OBVIOUS THAT MR. DAVID IS, UM, I I HE'S NOT VERY COMPUTER SAVVY.
HE'S NOT, I MEAN, HE JUST KNOWS, LIKE I SAID, HE CAN USE GOOGLE AND HE, BUT YOU KNOW, AND HE PROBABLY OPERATES LIKE ME.
I'M BETTER WITH LOOKING AT GIMME SOMETHING, GIMME THE HARD COPY.
THE ONLY PROBLEM IS YOUR RULE.
I, I WENT, WHEN ALL THIS CAME UP, I WENT AND LOOKED, TRY TO FIND YOUR RULE.
GO TO YOUR WEBSITE, GO TO THE WEBSITE FOR THIS BOARD.
GUESS WHAT? THE ONLY RULES ON THERE ARE YOUR PROCEDURAL RULES, OKAY? THAT'S IT.
THEN IF YOU LOOK, OKAY, WELL THE STATE EXAMINER IS THE LEGAL ADVISOR, GIVE Y'ALL ADVICE ON THINGS.
SO GO TO THEIR WEBSITE CUZ THINGS NEED TO BE SUBMITTED TO THEM FOR, UH, PROMULGATION AND WHATNOT.
BUT YOU GO ON THEIR WEBSITE, THERE'S ONLY TWO SETS OF RULES THERE.
ONE IS THE SAME, VERY SAME PROCEDURAL RULES THAT I JUST MENTIONED, AND THE OTHER JUST ONLY HAS TO DO WITH CLASSIFICATION PLAN.
SO THE VERY RULE THAT WE'RE HERE FOR TODAY THAT WAS PASSED BY THE BOARD IN 94 IS NOT EVEN ON THE STATE EXAMINER'S WEBSITE.
IT'S NOT ON YOUR WEBSITE, IT'S NOT ON THE STATE EXAMINER'S WEBSITE.
SO ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE JUST LOOKING FOR FAIRNESS FOR HIM AND WHAT WOULD BE EXPECTED OF HIM.
HE CERTAINLY COMPLIES WITH THE POLICY AS WRITTEN BY THE DEPARTMENT, UM, THAT HE WAS DIRECTED.
THIS IS WHERE YOU GO LOOK, YOU KNOW, TO SEE IF YOU'RE GONNA BE OPERATING WITHIN THE RULES OR OUR DEPARTMENT.
BUT THEN HE ALSO GOES AND LOOKS AT THE, AT THE ORDINANCE AND ONCE AGAIN, IT, HE APPEARS, IT APPEARS TO READ THE SAME EXACT WAY AS 4.33 SAYING, AS LONG AS YOU GOT A VALID PRESCRIPTION.
AND THAT IS IT ALL WE'RE ASKING.
AND THEN ONCE AGAIN, THE, THE, THE RULE THAT THEY WANT YOU TO ENFORCE IS THE VERY RULE THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO BREAK TO, TO RESOLVE THIS CASE.
SO IS IT VALID? IS IT, I MEAN, THAT'S THE THING.
THEY WANNA OFFER A SECOND AGREEMENT UNDER THIS RULE THAT'S NOT ALLOWED.
SO IN THAT BY ITS VERY NATURE SAYING, WELL, THAT RULE ISN'T REALLY ENFORCEABLE OR IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE ANY PLAY HERE, THE FACT THAT THEY'RE ASKING, THEY'RE WANTING TO BREAK IT JUST TO FIT WHAT THEY WOULD WISH HAPPENED AND THAT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH HERE.
SO THEY WANT YOU TO ENFORCE SOMETHING THAT THEY WERE WANTING TO BREAK AS WELL.
SO JUST PLEASE CONSIDER THE FAIRNESS HERE.
AT THIS TIME, DO UH, ANY BOARD MEMBERS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? UH, MR. KUK? YES.
WHAT REMEDY ARE YOU SEEKING FROM THIS BOARD? UH, UH, IN THIS CASE IS A TERMINATION.
I'D LIKE FOR HIM TO HAVE HIS, GET HIS JOB BACK.
WELL, AND I WILL, AND, AND DR.
ROBINSON, I THINK WE HAVE A GREATER ISSUE AT PLAY HERE.
I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT I CAN REQUEST IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE, BUT OBVIOUSLY THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED BY THE BOARD GOING FORWARD AS FAR AS HOW THIS IS GOING TO PLAY OUT FOR ALL OTHER EMPLOYEES BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN, CONFUSING IN THIS CASE, BUT IT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED GOING FORWARD AS WELL.
ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR ANY BOARD FROM ANY BOARD MEMBERS? OKAY, YOUR HONOR, ARE YOU GONNA DO A REBUTTAL OR ARE YOU, I I WOULD LIKE TO, TO JUST MAKE ONE OR TWO COMMENTS IN REBUTTAL.
UM, THE FIRST IS FOR CLARIFICATION.
THE STATUTE I WAS REFERENCING WAS 49 10 16.
UM, IN RESPONSE TO FAIRNESS, UM, AND IN COMPROMISES, I KNOW THE BIG THING IS, WELL, HOW CAN YOU OFFER AN AGREEMENT IF IT'S REALLY AGAINST THE, AGAINST THE THING? BECAUSE WE WERE TRYING TO WORK TOWARDS COMING TO THE BOARD AND SAYING, WE'VE ENTERED INTO A REHAB AGREEMENT IN THE INTERIM, AND WE WANT YOU TO LOOK AT THIS AND CLARIFY WHAT THE BOARD MEANS.
NOW, I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT EVEN UNDER THE STATE LAWS, THERE'S NOT GONNA BE AN THERE SHOULDN'T, OR THEY MIGHT NOT BE AN EXEMPTION FOR FIREFIGHTERS TO USE MEDICAL MARIJUANA, BUT THAT'S FOR THIS BOARD TO DECIDE.
BUT RIGHT NOW, THE LAW IS THAT THERE IS NO EXCEPTION.
HE REFERENCES, OH, THE MANUAL THAT YOU GAVE OUT IN 1997, REFERENCES, PRESCRIPTIONS.
THERE WAS NO VALID MEDICAL MARIJUANA PRESCRIPTIONS AT THAT TIME.
THIS BOARD DID NOT CONTEMPLATE PRESCRIPTIONS FROM MEDICAL MARIJUANA BEING AN EXCEPTION.
THIS BOARD MAY NEED TO, BUT THEY HAVEN'T.
AND EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T LIKE LAWS, WE'RE STUCK WITH 'EM UNTIL THEY CHANGE.
SO RIGHT NOW, THE LAW SAYS A POSITIVE MARIJUANA TEST HAS CONSEQUENCES.
IT DOESN'T ALLOW FOR AN EXCEPTION FOR MEDICAL
[01:50:01]
MARIJUANA.AND AS THE BOARD WITH YOUR OWN RULE, YOU'RE OBLIGED TO FOLLOW THAT RULE.
HE WAS OBLIGED TO FOLLOW THAT RULE.
HE MIGHT HAVE TRIED TO FIGURE OUT WAYS TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, BUT THEY DIDN'T WORK.
AND THE TRUTH OF IT WAS THAT'S BECAUSE THE EMPLOYEE SAID, I'M GONNA CONTINUE TO USE.
SO UNDER THAT CIRCUMSTANCES, I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT TERMINATION IS UNFORTUNATELY THE ONLY RESULT THAT CAN STAND.
AT THIS TIME WE HAVE A MATTER OF HOUSEKEEPING TO CLEAR UP.
UH, WE DID NOT SWEAR IN MR. DAVID OR CHIEF KIM AT THE BEGINNING.
SO, UH, IF WE CAN STIPULATE THAT BOTH PARTIES PROVIDED TRUTHFUL TESTIMONY IN THE AS IF THEY WERE UNDER OPEN COURT AT THIS TIME.
SO COUNSEL, CAN WE AGREE THAT, UH, BOTH GENTLEMEN PROVIDED TESTIMONY AS IF THEY WERE UNDER OATH? YES.
UH, IS THERE ANYTHING FROM EITHER PARTY THAT FIELD THEY NEED TO PUT ON RECORD AT THIS TIME? UH, JUST MAKE SURE FOR THE RECORD THAT THE STIPULATIONS IN EVERY EXHIBIT IS ACTUALLY INTRODUCED INTO THE RECORD, CORRECT? YOU ALL ITEMS, UM, INCLUDING EXHIBITS HAVE BEEN ENTERED INTO THE RECORD.
UH, IF THAT'S IT, WE'D LIKE TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION AT THIS TIME.
IS THERE A SECOND? ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.
WE'RE VOTING ON THE, YOU'RE VOTING ON EXECUTIVE SESSION.
SO WE'RE DOING THE ROLL CALL VOTE AND YOU WILL RESPOND YES.
IF YOU AGREE TO GO IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
AT THIS TIME WE HAVE A MOTION PASSES.
WE'D LIKE TO CLOSE THE REGULAR MEETING AND GO INTO AN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
AT THIS TIME, I'D LIKE TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO, UH, COME OUT OF EXEC EXECUTIVE TO END OUR EXECUTIVE SESSION AND GO BACK INTO THE REGULAR MEETING.
I MOVE, WE COME OUT OF EXECUTIVE SESSION.
COULD WE HAVE A ROLL CALL? VOTE MS. DORSEY PRESENT? NO.
COME OUTTA VOTE TO COME OUTTA A SECOND.
UM, WE, TIME IS NOW ONE FIFTY THREE.
UM, CALL BACK TO ORDER THE MUNICIPAL FIRE AND POLICE CIVIL SERVICE, UM, BOARD.
DO WE HAVE A MOTION? UM, I MAKE A MOTION THAT, UH, WE UPHOLD THE CHIEF'S DECISION.
THE APPOINTING AUTHORITY ACTED IN GOOD FAITH AND FOR CAUSE AND TERMINATION IS COMMISERATE, UH, WITH THE OFFENSE.
AT, AT THIS TIME, I'D LIKE TO ALLOW FOR PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE ISSUE.
UH, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
MY ADDRESS CURRENTLY IS, UH, 1640 SOUTH EUGENE BATON ROUGE, LOUISIANA.
UH, MY COMMENT TO THE MATTER, UH, I'LL KEEP IT BRIEF.
UM, I WAS IN A SIMILAR SITUATION, UH, I GUESS I STILL AM AS MR. DAVID, UH, AS FAR AS BEING A FIREFIGHTER, UH, FOR 10 YEARS WITH THE VETERANS FIRE DEPARTMENT AND BEING TERMINATED, UM, FOR MY USE AS WELL OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA.
THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MANY OTHER THINGS, YOU KNOW, AND I GET IT THAT THIS ISN'T A, A COURT OF LAW, YOU KNOW, SO IT IS NOT A LEGAL, UH, ASPECT, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER, UM, THINGS DEALING WITH, UH, HOW IT'S PORTRAYED AND HOW IT'S HANDLED, UH, ESPECIALLY IN THE DEPARTMENT.
UH, I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR THE BATTERY FIRE DEPARTMENT AND THE SELF-MEDICATING THAT GOES ON IN THAT DEPARTMENT BY GUYS WHO FEEL THEY HAVE NO OTHER OPTION.
AND EVEN WHEN THEY'RE GIVEN AN OPTION BY THEIR DOCTOR, A LICENSE AND ACTUAL PHYSICIAN, AND THEY STILL ARE BEING TOLD THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH EITHER.
UM, THE AMOUNT OF DRINKING THAT GOES ON IN THE DEPARTMENT IS MASSIVE.
UM, BECAUSE AGAIN, WHEN YOU GO TO A DOCTOR AND YOU GET ANOTHER OPTION, YOU'RE TOLD,
[01:55:01]
YOU KNOW, NO, BASICALLY, UH, THAT'S ALL I HAD TO SAY ON THE MATTER.IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO'D LIKE TO SPEAK AT THIS TIME? OKAY.
I STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
UH, MY ADDRESS IS 35 21 PERKINS ROAD IN DENIM SPRINGS.
I WANTED TO SAY WHEN ALL OF THIS CAME ABOUT, WHEN THIS STARTED, MY DAD HAS TESTIFIED THAT HE'S NOT TECHNICALLY INCLINED, BUT, UM, I DON'T CONSIDER MYSELF TECHNICALLY INCLINED, BUT I DO KNOW HOW TO OPERATE A COMPUTER.
AND BASED OFF OF ALL OF THE RESEARCH THAT I DID AND, YOU KNOW, CORRESPONDENCE WITH HIM TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHAT THE RULES DO STATE, I CAME UP WITH THE SAME CONCLUSION.
I, I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE, THE, THE RULE THAT, THAT THEY BROUGHT FORTH UNTIL MR. KYLE KERSHAW INFORMED US OF IT.
AND EVEN WHEN SEARCHING AND SEARCHING AND SEARCHING ON EVERY PUBLIC, EVERYTHING, I WAS STILL NOT ABLE TO COME UP WITH THAT TO EVEN, OR EVEN BE DIRECTED TO THAT.
I WOULD LIKE TO JUST SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF THE DECISION TODAY, I THINK THAT MOVING FORWARD IT SHOULD BE UNDERSTOOD THAT A FIREFIGHTER SHOULD NOT, THERE SHOULDN'T BE A, AN EXPECTATION TO HAVE TO FOLLOW A MAPQUEST DIRECTION FROM THIS RULE BOOK TO THIS RULE BOOK, TO THIS RULE BOOK, TO THE ONE THAT WE CAN'T FIND TO THE, THE NUMBER THAT DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE TO, WE HAD TO CALL A RETIRED SECRETARY TO GET THE ACTUAL RULE BOOK.
THAT SEEMS LIKE SOMETHING THAT PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE EXPECTED FROM ANYBODY THAT'S EXPECTED TO FOLLOW ANY RULE BOOK.
AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT.
ANYONE ELSE WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? YES, SIR.
DO THE SAME STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
UH, HERMAN EVANS, UH, ADDRESS IS 8 68 PRINCE WOOD COURT, BATON ROUGE.
UM, NO MATTER THE OUTCOME OF THIS SITUATION, UH, I, I'M BATON ROUGE FIREFIGHTER.
BEEN THERE 10 YEARS, JUNE 1ST, UH, I CAN PERSONALLY ATTEST TO CAPTAIN DAVID'S, UH, SLEEP PATTERN.
UM, EARLY ON IN MY CAREER, I'VE BEEN ASSIGNED THE SAME SHIFT SINCE I GRADUATED ROOKIE SCHOOL WITH HIM.
AND, UH, WE'VE COME CLOSE OVER THE YEARS, BUT THERE'S BEEN TIMES HE'LL, YOU KNOW, FALL ASLEEP ON A COUCH OR SOMETHING, AND EXACTLY LIKE YOU DESCRIBED, HAVE A VIOLENT OUTBURST LEADING UP UNTIL RECENTLY THOUGH, FALL ASLEEP ON THE COUCH AND FLY TO THE CHURCH MOUTH.
OTHER THAN A LITTLE BIT OF SNORING HERE AND THERE, BUT NO VIOLENT OUTBREAKS.
SO, UM, I SAY ALL THAT TO SAY THAT SOMETHING DOES NEED TO CHANGE, UM, AS FAR AS RULES, UH, BECAUSE THIS IS A NEW TERRITORY MEDICALLY.
UM, NONE OF US ARE DOCTORS, MYSELF INCLUDED, BUT SOMETHING DOES NEED TO BE CHANGED WHERE THIS CAN BE A CLEAR, DEFINITE YAY OR NAY, UM, FOR THE BATON ROUGE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
STATE YOUR NAME, ADDRESS, PLEASE.
YOU WANT MY ADDRESS? YES, MA'AM.
AND, BUT ANYWAY, UM, MY HUSBAND, I WANNA SAY THIS, MY HUSBAND IS A DAMN GOOD FIREFIGHTER AND I WASN'T THERE WITH HIM ON THE JOB, BUT I DO KNOW THAT AT TIMES WHEN HE CAME HOME AND THERE WERE ONE THAT WERE INVOLVED, CHILDREN ESPECIALLY, UM, I REMEMBER A SPECIFIC ONE HE MADE THAT WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR HIM.
AND OVER THE YEARS, THE PATTERN DID GET REALLY BAD, UM, AT NIGHT WHERE HE WOULD, AND HE'S, EVERY NOW AND THEN, HE'LL STILL HAVE AN OUTBURST, BUT IN THE PAST IT WAS, UM, BEFORE HE STARTED THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA, I WAS ON GUARD PRETTY MUCH BECAUSE WHEN HE'D START TALKING IN HIS SLEEP, I KNEW IT WAS COMING.
AND A LOT OF TIMES IT WAS, UM, HE WOULD BE TALKING LIKE, UM, HOLDING HIM DOWN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND PHYSICALLY GET UP IN THE BED AND BE IN A POSITION WHERE HE'D BE ON ALL FOURS.
AND, UM, I VIDEOED HIM ONE TIME AND, UM, I LOOKED AT IT AND BECAUSE OF THE SOUND AND I, I, I, IT WASN'T THAT GOOD OF ONE, BUT IT JUST KINDA SHOWED ME EXACTLY AND I WANTED TO SHOW HIM HOW BAD IT, IT WAS GETTING.
[02:00:01]
SO BAD THAT I HAVE A RECLINER IN MY BEDROOM THAT I WOULD SIT IN THAT RECLINER AND JUST KIND OF, KIND OF WATCH AND LISTEN AND SEE IF I COULD GET SOME SLEEP.I HAVE SCOLIOSIS VERY BAD NOW, AND IT TAKES A LOT LONGER FOR ME TO GET OUTTA THAT BED FAST.
BUT, UM, IT'S, IT'S NOT AS BAD AS IT USED TO BE.
AND I WANT TO BE VERY HONEST WITH YOU, IF HE'S HAVING A BAD OUTBURST AND I CAN CALM HIM DOWN AND WAKE HIM UP, I WILL ASK HIM, DID YOU TAKE YOUR MEDICINE? BECAUSE HONESTLY, I DON'T WANT HIM IN THAT BED WITH ME UNLESS HE TAKES HIS MEDICATION.
IT, IT CAN GET VERY BAD WHERE I MEANS ARE GONNA GET HURT OR HE'S GONNA GET REALLY BADLY HURT.
SO I, I JUST APPRECIATE Y'ALL BEING HERE AND LISTENING TO THIS.
AND, UM, I JUST WANNA SAY THAT MY HUSBAND IS A GOOD FIREFIGHTER.
IF ANYTHING, HE'S HAD CERTIFICATES OF JOBS WELL DONE AND CITIZENS THAT HAVE THANKED HIM FOR HELPING THEM.
AND IT JUST BREAKS MY HEART THAT THIS MIGHT BE THE END.
HE'S NEVER CAUSED ANY PROBLEMS. SO JUST THANK Y'ALL FOR YOUR TIME.
NAME, ADDRESS, UH, DENISE STOPS 5 4 27 HEIDI'S PLACE, BATON ROUGE.
UM, I'VE KIND OF BEEN ON THE OUTSIDE OF EVERYTHING.
LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAID, AND MY NIECE SAID, AND HIS WIFE SAID, UM, AND SITTING IN HERE AND LISTENING TO ALL THE TESTIMONY, YOU KNOW, I HAVE ONE QUESTION AS FAR AS THERE'S AN EXCEPTION THAT YOU CAN BE ON CERTAIN PRESCRIPTION MEDICATION TO HELP YOU, UM, THAT CAME ABOUT IN SOME RULE BOOK THAT NOBODY COULD FIND, BUT IS THERE A LIST OF THOSE OKAY.
AND WHEN THAT RULE CAME BY AROUND YEARS AGO, THERE'S BEEN SO MANY OTHER MEDICATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED FOR SLEEP PAIN, WHATEVER, P T S D, BUT THERE'S NOWHERE THAT SAYS, YES, THIS IS OKAY.
AND YES, THIS IS NOT OKAY AS A GENERAL CITIZEN OF EAST BATON ROUGE PARISH.
I MEAN, I THINK THE BOARD NEEDS TO DEFINITELY ADDRESS THE ISSUE FIREFIGHTERS ARE HAVING.
THEY DO, AND I MEAN, I'VE HEARD FIREFIGHTERS SAY, WELL, I GO TO MY SUPERVISOR AND THEY FIGURE IT OUT AND I'VE HEARD IT FROM MORE THAN JUST HIM.
HE'S BEEN A FIREFIGHTER FOR SO MANY YEARS.
I KNOW MANY OF THE FIREFIGHTERS.
AND THEY SAY, THEIR SUPERVISORS SAY, FIGURE IT OUT.
I THINK THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HAS A HUGE ISSUE WITH WHO YOU GO TO, THE QUESTIONS AND WHERE YOU GET ANSWERS FROM.
DO WE HAVE ANYONE ELSE WHO'D LIKE TO WISH TO SPEAK? OKAY, SEEING NO MORE COMMENT, I'D LIKE TO ENTERTAIN, UM, DISCUSS DISCUSSION BY THE BOARD.
I WANT TO COMMENT, YOU KNOW, TODD, ME AND TODD'S BEEN FRIENDS SINCE BEFORE I CAN WORK AT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
UH, WE WERE BOTH IN A PROGRAM TOGETHER.
UH, I CAN CONTEST TO THE PROBLEMS WITH PTSD D AND I DO BELIEVE THAT ADDITIONAL MARIJUANA WOULD HELP WITH THAT.
UH, I THINK IT'S A CHOICE WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO USE THAT.
I DON'T THINK AT THIS TIME IT'S LEGAL FOR US TO DO IT RIGHT NOW.
UH, I KNOW SOME LAWS HAVE CHANGED, BUT IT DOESN'T INCLUDE FIREFIGHTERS AND WE'VE HEARD TESTIMONY ON THAT.
UH, BUT, UH, THIS, IT'S BEEN, IT'S GONNA MAKE, IT'S A HARD DECISION FOR ME, YOU KNOW, CUZ IT AFFECTS A FRIEND.
[02:05:04]
I DO WANT TO, UH, EVERYONE TO UNDERSTAND THAT I THINK THE BOARD UNDERSTANDS THE SITUATION THAT WE FIND OURSELVES IN, AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS THAT YOU MADE.UM, JUST SHORTLY THOUGH, THERE ARE TWO THINGS THAT THIS BOARD AS A POLICY, UH, ORGANIZATION HAVE TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT.
AND THAT IS, ONE, IF YOU HAVE A POLICY OR YOU HAVE A PROCEDURE OR YOU HAVE A LAW OR AN ORDINANCE, YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW IT UNTIL YOU CHANGE IT.
THE SECOND THING IS THAT IGNORANCE OF AN ORDINANCE, A POLICY OR PROCEDURE, WHATEVER IT IS, IS NO EXCUSE FOR NOT LIVING UP TO IT.
THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH AS A BOARD, AS A POLICY BOARD.
AND SO, UH, WHAT'S BEING RECOMMENDED HERE BY THE MOTION I WILL SUPPORT BECAUSE OF THOSE TWO REASONS.
LET, LET ME FIRST SAY THE TREMENDOUS RESPECT I HAVE FOR OUR PUBLIC SAFETY, FOR OUR OFFICERS AND FOR OUR FIREMEN.
UH, I HAVE BEEN RECENTLY WHAT MADE AWARE OF THE HEALTH CONCERNS THAT MANY FIREMEN RECEIVED DUE TO THIS, TO THIS JOB THAT I, I WAS TOTALLY UNAWARE OF.
YOU GUYS RISK YOUR LIFE EVERY DAY TO PROTECT THE CITIZENS OF THIS COMMUNITY.
AND A PART OF WHAT THIS BOARD DOES IS TO PROTECT YOU.
UH, BUT WE ARE GOVERNED BY OUR OWN RULES.
AND WE, YOU KNOW, ALTHOUGH WE'RE, WE'RE HERE TODAY BASED UPON A SITUATION THAT WE KNOW NEEDS TO BE REVISITED AT, THAT AT THIS TIME, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT'S IN FRONT OF US AND WHAT OUR RULE IS AT THIS PRESENT MOMENT, WHAT NOT WHAT WE HOPED IT TO BE, NOT WHAT WE INFERRED TO BE, BUT WHAT IT IS.
AND GIVEN THAT I WOULD LIKE OR I WISH THAT CHIEF CAMPBELL WOULD, IN THE EVENT THAT THERE ARE REVISIONS OR CHANGES IN THE FUTURE, THAT CONCESSIONS BE MADE THAT WOULD AFFECT, UM, MR. DAVID'S FUTURE OR RE-EMPLOYMENT IN THE EVENT WE DECIDE THAT IT IS NOT, UH, CONTINUE TODAY.
BUT, UM, AGAIN, AS, AS A BOARD, WE ARE RESTRICTED TO WHAT WE HAVE AND WHAT THE RULE IS.
UH, TODAY IT IS VERY UNFORTUNATE AND TROUBLING THAT YOU, YOU TELL ME THAT YOU FINDING YOU HAD TO FIND THE RULE FROM A PREVIOUS SECRETARY'S, PREVIOUS SECRETARIES ATTIC OR SOMETHING.
BUT YOU KNOW, WE, WE, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE, UH, GOING FORWARD AFTER TODAY.
SO AT THIS TIME, I CALL FOR THE QUESTION, I WOULD TAKE A ROLL CALL, VOTE ON THE, THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR.
AND THE, TO BE CLEAR, UM, THE MOTION IS TO SUSTAIN THE POINT AUTHORITIES DISCIPLINE.
SO A YES WOULD AFFIRM A NO WITH DISSENT.
ALL RIGHT, SO THE MOTION PASSES.
UM, BRINGS US TO OUR NEXT ITEM, WHICH IS ADJOURNMENT.