[Storm Water Advisory Committee Meeting on June 22, 2023]
[00:00:02]
IT'S ABOUT EVERYBODY HERE THAT'S GONNA BE HERE.
I KNOW, UM, I KNOW FOR SURE KEN DAWSON WITH SOUTHERN UNIVERSITY IS NOT GONNA BE HERE TODAY.
OH, WE HAD ONE MORE PERSON HERE, BUT I'LL GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED.
UM, I WANTED TO START OFF WITH, UH, HOUSE BILL 4 0 9 THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THAT THE LAST TIME WE KIND OF SAID, YOU KNOW, WE WERE GONNA WAIT AND SEE WHERE THAT FELL OUT.
IT WAS PASSED WITH SOME REVISIONS.
AND THAT'S, UM, AND IT IS NOW ACT THREE 19, BUT JUST AS A REFER HOUSE BILL 4 0 9 WAS, WAS PUT INTO PLACE THAT REQUIRES, UH, STORMWATER UTILITIES TO, IF THEY HAVE A FEE TO GO OUT AND HAVE THE FEE VOTED ON BY THE, THE PUBLIC.
SO HOW DOES THAT AFFECT US IN, IN SOME WAYS IT DOES.
WHEN, WHEN WE DEVELOPED THE UTILITY BACK IN SEPTEMBER OF 2022, WE HAD A, A RESOLUTION THAT IT ACTUALLY REFERENCED BOTH THE, THE LOCAL SERVICES LAW AND THE, THE OTHER, THE LAW STATUTE THAT HOUSE BILL 4 0 9 CHANGED.
SO THERE WERE, THAT WAS A, A FLAWED RESOLUTION TO BEGIN WITH.
EITHER WAY, IT WAS GONNA REQUIRE SOME, SOME REVISIONS TO IT, AND THOSE REVISIONS ARE GONNA NEED TO BE WORKED OUT BETWEEN THE MAYOR'S OFFICE AND THE COUNCIL.
BUT ULTIMATELY, FOR, FOR WHAT WE'RE DOING TODAY, IT, IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS WE WANT TO, TO GET A RECOMMENDATION OF WHAT IS THAT LEVEL OF SERVICE THAT THE COMMITTEE WANTS TO SEE.
WHETHER THAT IS, UH, VOTED ON BY THE, THE COUNCIL AS A FEE OR THE PUBLIC AS A FEE.
EITHER WAY, WE, WE WANNA BRING THAT RECOMMENDATION FROM THIS COMMITTEE, UH, OUT TO THE APPROPRIATE PARTIES.
SO WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO, UH, TURN IT OVER TO, UH, LINDA IN FINANCE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT OUR FUNDING FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS.
FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT DON'T KNOW ME, I'M LINDA HUNT.
I'M THE FINANCE DIRECTOR, UH, FOR THE CITY PARISH HERE.
UM, SO WHAT MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE, THE FUNDING THAT ADAM TALKED TO ME ABOUT FOR HIS NEEDS FOR, FOR 24, WE'VE SATISFIED THE FUNDING THROUGH A COMBINATION OF THE GENERAL FUND, $5 MILLION FROM THE GENERAL FUND, AND THE BALANCE FROM THE ARPA FUNDS THAT WE APPROPRIATED FOR STORM WATER.
THEN THAT, THAT WILL BE ABLE TO GET HIM THROUGH THE END OF 24.
SO THEY CAME TO ME AND THEY SAID THAT THEY WANTED TO, THEY NEEDED 7 MILLION, BASICALLY FOR 2025 OPERATIONS.
AND SO THE MAYOR TASKED ME WITH COMING UP WITH A, A PLAN IN ORDER TO FUND THAT.
SO WHAT MY PLAN IS, AND I'VE TALKED TO HER ABOUT IT AND SHE'S IN AGREEMENT WITH IT, AND WE WILL HAVE TO PRESENT THIS TO THE COUNCIL, IS TO TAKE THREE AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS OF OUR UNDESIGNATED RESERVES THAT WE HAVE, UM, ON HAND FROM REMAINING FROM LAST YEAR, AND TO DESIGNATE THOSE FOR STORMWATER SO THAT THEY WILL BE AVAILABLE WHEN WE DO THE 2025 BUDGET FOR STORMWATER.
AND THEN THE OTHER THREE AND A HALF MILLION I WOULD DESIGNATE AT THE END OF THIS YEAR.
AND BASICALLY IT WOULD ALSO COME FROM RESERVES.
BUT THOSE RESERVES WERE GENERATED THROUGH, UM, GOOD SALES TAX GROWTH IN EXCESS OF OUR BUDGET FOR 2023.
SO THAT, UM, ADAM ASKED ME TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT, THAT WOULD BE OUR PLAN.
WE WOULD PRESENT THAT PROBABLY THE FIRST THREE AND A HALF MILLION.
WE PRESENTED A BUDGET SUPPLEMENT THAT WILL GO BEFORE THE COUNCIL, UM, PROBABLY IN AUGUST OF THIS YEAR.
AND THEN THE OTHER THREE AND A HALF MILLION FOR 25 WOULD BE THROUGH THE BUDGET ADOPT, SIR.
SO THE $7 MILLION, UH, THAT NEED TO BE FILLED IN FOR 25.
BECAUSE YOU'RE USING THE ONE TIME RESERVE MONEY THAT, THAT'S CORRECT.
SO, YOU KNOW, MAN, I WISH I HAD A CRYSTAL BALL AND I COULD TELL YOU WHERE I'M GONNA BE.
RIGHT NOW I'M DOING THE 22 AUDIT.
I'M PREPARING THE 24 BUDGET, AND NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 25.
AND I, AND I WISH I COULD TELL YOU THIS IS WHERE
[00:05:01]
WE'LL BE AT FOR 25.I CAN TELL YOU THAT AS I PREPARED THE 24 BUDGET, AND I LOOK AT, I LOOK AT THE, THE, THE REVENUE GROWTH THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE, AND I LOOK AT THE INFLATIONARY EXPENSES THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE BASED ON, A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH OUR EMPLOYEE BENEFIT PROGRAMS. AND WHEN I LOOK AT THAT, I DO NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE AT THIS TIME TO SAY THAT WE WILL HAVE REVENUE GROWTH IN THE GENERAL FUND THAT WILL SUSTAIN THAT.
AND SO THAT'S WHY MY RECOMMENDATION TO THE MAYOR AND I FELT LIKE THE PRUDENT THING TO DO WAS TO DO IT WITH, TO TAKE THE RESERVES, THE MONEY THAT WE HAVE IN THE BANK, THE MONEY THAT WE'VE COLLECTED.
LET'S GO AHEAD AND EARMARK IT NOW SO THAT WE KNOW IT WILL BE THERE IN 2025.
SO THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I'M AT THE, FOR THE 2024 BUDGET, WHAT PORTION IS A R P AND WHICH PORTION IS GENERAL FUNDS? SO I KNOW THAT I, YOU KNOW, IT, IT, IT WENT OVER SEVERAL YEARS.
I KNOW WE PUT 5 MILLION, REMEMBER WHEN WE, THE LAST YEAR WHEN WE, WE AMENDED THE FINAL BUDGET, THE 5 MILLION WAS FROM THE GENERAL FUND FOR STORMWATER.
SO I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT THE TOTAL IS, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT 5 MILLION OF IT WAS THE GENERAL FUND THAT CAME BASICALLY FROM, FROM RESERVES.
I THINK I CAN AT LEAST GIVE YOU A, A ROUGH ESTIMATE.
I THINK ABOUT PROBABLY ABOUT 4 MILLION OF IT IS GONNA BE SPENT IN, OF THE GENERAL FUND DOLLARS.
FOUR OF THE 5 MILLION ARE GONNA BE IN 2024.
WE'RE SPENDING VERY LITTLE OF IT THIS YEAR BECAUSE IT, WE'RE MOSTLY OPERATING OFF OF, UH, A R P FUNDS THIS YEAR.
I, I CAN GET YOU THAT EXACT NUMBER, BUT JUST THAT'S OFF OF MEMORY.
I FEEL LIKE THAT'S ROUGHLY WHERE WE ARE.
SO WITH THAT, LIKE YOU SAID, I'LL, I'LL THROW OUT A COUPLE QUESTIONS OUT.
THE, THE NUMBERS THAT WERE JUST GIVEN ARE TO ACHIEVE THE COMPLIANCE ONLY AMOUNT? THAT'S, THAT'S CORRECT.
SO THE, UM, AT, AT THE END OF THE LAST MEETING, UH, ONE OF THE REQUESTS THAT WAS MADE WAS, WHAT DO WE NEED FOR STRICTLY FOR COMPLIANCE? AND I THINK AT THAT TIME WE, WE GAVE A RANGE AND WE SAID WE WOULD FOLLOW IT UP WITH A, WITH AN EXACT DOLLAR AMOUNT.
AND THIS IS WHERE, THIS IS THAT NUMBER.
SO TALK ME THROUGH, IF YOU WOULD, HOW YOU CAME TO HER.
THE CONCLUSION OF 6.5 WAS COME TO, IT'S A LOT OF EXTRA PERSONNEL IS WHAT IT IS.
AND WHETHER THAT IS, UM, CONTRACTED PERSONNEL OR IT IS CITY PARISH PERSONNEL, BUT IT'S, IT'S A LOT OF EXTRA PERSONNEL TO BE DOING THE, DOING THE INSPECTIONS AND DOING THE REPORTING IN VARIOUS DIFFERENT, UH, PARTS OF THE, UH, STORMWATER PERMIT TO, TO GET INTO COMPLIANCE AND THEN TO MAINTAIN COMPLIANCE.
AND AS WE ENTER INTO WHAT WE CONSIDER COMPLIANCE, THERE COULD BE WORD FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT MORE COULD BE REQUIRED, LESS COULD BE REQUIRED, DIFFERENT APPROACH COULD BE REQUIRED.
SO THIS BUDGET IS BASED ON WHAT WE ARE TURNING IN RIGHT NOW.
SO WHAT HAPPENS IF THIS LEVEL OF FUNDING IS APPROVED? UH, BUT THEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COMES BACK AND SAYS, WELL, THIS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND MORE IS REQUIRED.
IS THIS, IS THIS SITUATION WHERE WE COME BACK AGAIN NEXT YEAR AND SAY WE NEED TO REVIEW THIS OR LIKE, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS THEN? MM-HMM.
I, IF IF FOR SOME REASON WE, WE NEED TO LEAVE, UM, AND IF, IF FOR ANY REASON WE, WE DECIDE THAT WE NEED TO COME BACK, THEN YES, WE WOULD, WE WOULD RECONVENE THE THE COMMITTEE.
AND I, I THINK THAT JUST IN AS A GENERAL STATEMENT, I, I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE'RE GONNA LEAVE THE MEETING TODAY, IS THAT HOPEFULLY WE, WE COME OUT WITH, WITH RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT WE, WE DO BE THAT WE WOULD WANT THIS COMMITTEE TO REMAIN INTACT ON AN AS NEEDED BASIS OR WHENEVER WE WOULD NEED DECISIONS
[00:10:01]
MADE.I MEAN, I THINK THAT EXACTLY WHAT ADAM SAID IN ANY SITUATION, I THINK THAT THE DEPARTMENT AND CONCERT WITH THE MAYOR'S OFFICE WOULD LOOK AT ALL OF THE OPTIONS AS FAR AS ACQUIRING ADDITIONAL FUNDING.
AS FAR AS KEEPING THE COMMITTEE TOGETHER, THAT WOULD BE, UH, ADAM'S DEPARTMENT AND THE MAYOR'S DIVISION.
JUST A QUICK QUESTION ABOUT THESE NUMBERS.
UM, FUNDING GAP COMPLIANCE, ONLY 6.5 MILLION MINIMUM, UM, LEVEL OF SERVICE, 19.2 MILLION.
DOES THAT, THAT 19.2 INCLUDE THE 6.5? IT DOES.
SO THAT, THAT WAS THE, THE 6.5, THE, UH, I WANT TO SAY IT WAS 9 MILLION IN O AND M AND THEN THERE WAS, UH, A CAPITAL COMPONENT THAT INCREASED OVER THE, THE FIVE YEARS.
BUT YEAH, I GUESS JUST ALL THREE OF THEM INCLUDE THE COMPLIANCE.
AND THE MINIMUM LEVEL OF SERVICE IS WHAT THE CITY WILL FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH TO MEET THE STANDARDS OF THE, UH, THE FEDS? NO, THE, THE MINIMUM LEVEL OF SERVICE WAS WHAT WE FELT LIKE THERE.
IN ADDITION TO, TO MAINTAIN, YOU HAVE TO CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN YOUR SYSTEM, RIGHT? YOU'VE GOTTA PUT O AND M INTO YOUR SYSTEM BECAUSE THAT O AND M WILL KEEP THOSE, THE SEDIMENTS AND THAT TYPE OF THING FROM, FROM ENTERING THE, THE WATERWAY.
IS THAT, SO LEMME SAY THIS, ADAM, THIS MAY BE A TERMINOLOGY THING BECAUSE MINIMUM LEVEL SERVICE ON THE EMAIL HE SENT TO ADAM IS THE 19.215.
THE COMPLIANCE PIECE IS WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.
SO I WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE WERE HAVING THE SAME DISCUSSION CUZ YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MINIMUM LEVEL OF SERVICE, WHICH IS 19.215.
AND THAT, AND THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
WHEN WE WERE PUTTING THIS TOGETHER, WE WAS TRYING TO USE THE SAME, UH, NOMENCLATURE THAT WE USED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS.
UM, SO TRIED NOT TO USE, UH, THE WORD MINIMUM AGAIN OR IN OR IN CONFLICT WITH WHAT IT WAS USED PREVIOUSLY.
I JUST, I THOUGHT THERE WAS A, A GAP THERE.
UM, YEAH, ON THAT NOTE, IT FEELS A LITTLE BIT LIKE, JUST FROM THE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE'VE HAD WALKING IN HERE WITH SOME FOLKS, AND WHAT I'M HEARING RIGHT HERE, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY OR WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE, EVERYBODY SEEMS TO BE TALKING ABOUT IS THE COMPLIANCE ONLY COMPLIANCE.
SO THE MINIMUM LEVEL OF SERVICE AND THE RECOMMENDED LEVEL OF SERVICE IS NO LONGER ON THE TABLE FOR DISCUSSION.
IS THAT ACCURATE? THE, THE COMMITTEE CAN, CAN MAKE WHATEVER RECOMMENDATION THEY, THEY WANT.
I JUST, YEAH, JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY.
AND SO WITH THAT SAID, UM, THE STORMWATER COALITION, YOU KNOW, BELIEVES
AND THE MINIMUM LEVEL OF SERVICE, LET'S CALL THAT THE CHEVROLET, UM, THE COMPLIANCE ONLY, WE ARE CALLING IT THE BEAT UP VOLKSWAGEN.
SO THAT'S HOW WE'VE BEEN LIVING WITH THIS SINCE WE'VE SEEN THIS.
AND IT'S A LITTLE, UM, DISHEARTENING TO US TO SAY THE LEAST, THAT WE AS A CITY WOULD BE SATISFIED WITH THIS V VOLKSWAGEN WHILE OUR KIDS ARE LEAVING TOWN AND OUR CITY IS FILTHY.
UM, SO WE FEEL REALLY STRONGLY THAT WE'VE GOTTA COME UP WITH, AT LEAST WE GET THAT WE MIGHT NOT BE READY FOR THE CADILLAC.
WE GET THAT, BUT WE FEEL LIKE WE'VE GOT TO SIT AROUND THE TABLE AND DO THIS THE RIGHT WAY.
WE'VE GOT A SHOT, CLEAN IT UP AND DO IT RIGHT.
IF OUR COMPLIANCE ONLY THE BALANCE HERE OF SIX, 6,500,000 WILL GET US IN COMPLIANCE WITH MS FOUR, THE DEQ AND THE FEDS OFF OUR BACK.
I FEEL LIKE THAT'S, THAT'S THE MINIMUM THAT WE HAVE TO DO TO GET, TO GET THERE.
AND THAT INCLUDES THE NINE SOMETHING MILLION THAT THE CITY IS ALREADY ASKING THE BUDGET FOR THIS.
SO YEAH, ALL, ALL THREE OF THESE NUMBERS ARE, UH, FUNDING GAPS, MEANING IN ADDITION TO WHAT IS ALREADY BEING PROVIDED IN, IN SOME FORM OR FASHION, WHATEVER THAT FUNDING MECHANISM MAY BE.
AND THAT, THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY REALLOCATION OF BUDGET FUNDS, THE RESERVES, UH, TO COME UP WITH THAT.
IS THAT CORRECT? IN BEGINNING IN 2026.
WELL, LET ME LET, LET ME LET LINDA ANSWER THAT.
[00:15:08]
I THINK THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT IS THE NINE TO NINE AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS DRAINAGE BUDGET THAT'S CURRENTLY IN THE GENERAL FUND FOR DRAINAGE MAINTENANCE.THAT IS FUNDED IN THE GENERAL FUND.
WE WILL REMAIN FUND FUNDING THEM IN THE GENERAL FUND THROUGH THE GENERAL TAX BASE.
AND SO THE RESERVES THAT I SPOKE OF FOR THE COMPLIANCE PORTION WOULD BE IN ADDITION TO THAT, THOSE WOULD BE APPROPRIATIONS.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE NINE AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS STAYS IN THE BUDGET, UM, IN, IN THE GENERAL FUND BUDGET AS IT IS AND HAS BEEN FUNDED.
DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? OKAY.
AND THE RESERVE FUNDING, IF IT IS APPROVED, WOULD BE IN ADDITION TO THE 6.5 MILLION? NO, I BELIEVE THAT THE RESERVE FUNDING WOULD SUPPORT THE 6.5 MILLION.
THAT, THAT, THAT WOULD BE THE FUNDING MECHANISM FOR THE 6.5.
HE DOESN'T HAVE THE NINE OR THE NINE AND A HALF ON THE PIECE OF PAPER.
I DON'T HAVE THE PAPER, BUT SO IT WOULD BE REPLACING THE 6.5? IT WOULD BE, WOULD BE FUNDING THE 6.5.
I THINK WE'RE, MAYBE I CAN ALL, ALL ALONG WE WERE TALKING, THIS IS WHERE WHAT WE NEEDED FOR 2025 UHHUH.
WHAT WE'RE SAYING TODAY IS, IS WE'VE COME UP WITH A PLAN FOR 2025.
WE ARE NOW SAYING FOR 2026 THIS IS WHAT WE NEED.
SO THE, THE, THE RESERVES THAT LINDA SPOKE OF ARE TO FUND THE SIX AND A HALF FOR 2025.
WE'RE NOW TALKING ABOUT 2026, BUT WE'RE STILL SHORT IN 2025.
BY 3 MILLION BECAUSE THE RESERVES ARE ONLY 3.5, RIGHT? NO, I THINK WHAT, WHAT SHE WAS, SHE, IT WAS GONNA HAPPEN TWICE.
SHE'S EAR MARK FROM TWO DIFFERENT YEARS.
SO IF, IF WE APPROVE THE 6.5 MILLION FOR COMPLIANCE ONLY AS A FEE IN ADDITION TO THE 9 MILLION WE HAVE IN THE BUDGET ALREADY, THAT BRINGS US UP TO COMPLIANCE WITH MS FOUR.
ANY RESERVE FUNDING FOR 2026 WOULD BE, IN ADDITION TO THAT WOULD APPLY TOWARD THE MINIMUM LEVEL OF SERVICE FOR THAT YEAR THAT YOU'RE LOOKING TO GET FUNDING FOR.
THAT WOULD BE A DECISION THAT IF, IF THERE'S RESERVE FUNDING, I DON'T, I I CAN'T MAKE THAT DECISION WHAT THAT UH, WHAT THAT RESERVE FUNDING WOULD BE USED FOR.
CAN THE METRO COUNCIL, UH, YEAH.
SO THE, THE GENERAL, THE WAY THAT, THAT OUR, OUR BUDGETS ARE APPROVED OR YOU HAVE THE BUDGET IS RECOMMENDED BY THE MAYOR, PRESIDENT AND THEN A MAJORITY OF THE COUNCIL MUST APPROVE THE BUDGET.
OR IF THEY DON'T, THEN THE BUDGET RECOMMENDED BY THE MAYOR GOES INTO EFFECT.
AND THAT'S HOW THE PLAN OF GOVERNMENT'S WRITTEN IT.
I CAN'T STAND UP HERE AND TELL YOU WHAT THE RESERVES ARE GONNA BE IN 26.
UM, YOU KNOW, I, I'M PROJECTING THROUGH THE END OF 24.
THAT'S WHY FOR 25 I'M USING RESERVES THAT I HAVE IN THE BANK NOW, STUFF THAT I'M USING, WHAT I KNOW I'VE ALREADY COLLECTED BECAUSE I, I CAN'T, I CAN'T TELL YOU OUT INTO THE FUTURE KNOWING WHAT ALL OF THE OTHER ISSUES ARE, UM, WHAT THE PRIORITIES ARE GOING TO BE AT THAT TIME.
YES, OF COURSE I THINK THIS IS GONNA BE A PRIORITY, BUT I, I DON'T KNOW IF WE WILL HAVE THE RESERVES AT THAT TIME.
UM, AND THAT WILL BE A DECISION THAT WE'LL HAVE TO MAKE WHEN WE GET CLOSER.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT IT WILL BE VERY DIFFICULT TO PUT A 7 MILLION ANNUAL RECURRING COSTS IN OUR GENERAL FUND OPERATING BUDGET, LOOKING AT OUR CURRENT TAX BASE AND LOOKING AT, LOOKING AT OUR RESPONSIBILITIES AND, AND OUR LIABILITIES THAT WE HAVE.
I, I, I, I FEEL PRETTY COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, BUT I'LL BE DOING THE 25 BUDGET, UM, IN THE SPRING OF 24.
YOU HAVE THREE DIFFERENT FUNDING POSSIBILITIES.
UM, INER, I GUESS REALLY IMPERVIOUS AREA AND JUST SALES TAX.
THOSE THE ONLY TWO YOU'RE REALLY JUST LOOKING AT IS THAT, WELL, SO IF WE GET INTO FUNDING, NOT, IT WOULD BE FOUR ACTUALLY.
[00:20:01]
IT'S A, UH, FLAT FEE.I WANT TO KNOW FOR THE PARISH ATTORNEY WHICH OF THESE WOULD REQUIRE, UM, JUST TO COUNSEL ACTION IN WHICH OF THESE WOULD REQUIRE A VOTE OF THE APPEAL? SO DOES A PARISH ATTORNEY HAVE AN OPINION OR RE ISSUED OPINION IN REFERENCE TO ANY OF THOSE, THE FUNDING MECHANISM, JUDGE, PREVIOUS AREAS SALES TAX, A MIL.
A MIL THAT, DO ANY OF THOSE HAVE TO GO TO A VOTE? SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE SALES TAX WOULD HAVE TO GO TO BUT IMP NEITHER THE IMPERVIOUS OR THE MILLAGE.
IS THAT YOUR, IS THAT YES, THE IMPERVIOUS WOULD BE A FEE
WELL, WHOSE AREA IS IT? WELL, I MEAN, I, WE CAN TALK TO LINDA WHO IS IN FINANCE AND SHE, SHE CAN HELP US WITH THAT AS WELL.
I, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT LINDA FEELS COMFORTABLE GIVING LEGAL OPINIONS.
I WANT SOMEBODY TO GIMME A LEGAL OPINION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY BELIEVE BASED UPON THE PASSAGE OF THAT ACT MM-HMM.
WHETHER OR NOT ANY OF THESE REQUIRE ANY.
SO I CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION FOR YOU.
PER THE PASSAGE OF THE ACT, IF YOU USE THAT ACT, THEN YES, A VOTE OF THE PEOPLE WOULD BE REQUIRED TO FUND THAT, UH, UTILITY.
NOT WHETHER YOU USE THE ACT, WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S ANY OTHER MECHANISM THAT YOU BELIEVE OR Y'ALL RENDERED AN OPINION CONCERNING WHETHER OR NOT IMPERVIOUS AREAS WOULD REQUIRE SOMETHING MORE THAN COUNSEL ACTION BASED UPON WHETHER YOU USE THE, UH, I DON'T LOCAL SERVICE LAW OR WHETHER YOU USE AC I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE TYPE OF FEE, UH, THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S YOU USE IMPERVIOUS AREA IS THE DETERMINING FACTOR.
I THINK IT MATTERS WHETHER YOU USE THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW OR THE NEW, UH, LAW WITH ITS, YOU KNOW, AMENDMENTS THAT WOULD DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS A SALES TAX OR IF IT WAS A FEE THAT WAS PASSED BY THE, THE METRO COUNCIL.
LET, LET ME ASK YOU A BETTER WAY.
HAVE YOU DETERMINED THAT THE LOCAL SERVICE LAW DOES NOT REQUIRE A VOTE OF THE PEOPLE? IF THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW IS USED AS IT WAS IN NEBRASKA, THEN NO, IT DOES NOT REQUIRE A VOTE OF THE PEOPLE PROVIDED THE METROPOLITAN COUNCIL APPROVES THAT FEE BASED UPON THE USE OF THE LOCAL SERVICE LAW.
NOW WHAT ABOUT, AND NOW IN REFERENCE TO SALES TAX, THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE, UH, A DEDICATION OF OVER THE PEOPLE, CORRECT? YES, SIR.
AND WHAT ABOUT, UH, WHAT ABOUT A MILLAGE? UH, I, I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION.
AND WHAT ABOUT A FLAT FEE? SO IT DEPENDS ON HOW, HOW YOU INSTITUTE, AGAIN, IF YOU INSTITUTE A FLAT FEE UNDER THE PUBLIC SERVICE LAW, THEN THE METROPOLITAN COUNCIL CAN VOTE FOR THAT.
IF YOU CHOOSE TO GO TO THE PEOPLE AND PROPOSE A FLAT, FLAT FEE, THEN YOU WOULD NEED A VOTE FOR THAT.
HOW WOULD THE FLAT FEE, UM, IF THAT WAS THE DECISION, HOW WOULD THAT BE ADMINISTERED? HOW WOULD THE PEOPLE PAY THE BILL? HOW I'M $25.
HOW AM I GONNA PAY YOU? WHERE WOULD THAT SHOW UP ON THE UTILITY BILL? I HAVE ON MY TAX BILL ON MY, THAT THAT'S, AND THERE, THERE'S SEVERAL WAYS WE CAN DO THAT.
AND I, UH, HONESTLY, THAT'S NOT WHERE WE WERE.
WE WERE REALLY JUST TRYING TO GET A, A, A RECOMMENDATION ON WHAT TYPE OF FEE OR WHAT TYPE OF FUNDING MECHANISM THERE WERE.
WE HAVEN'T, WE HAVEN'T DECIDED THAT YET BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T LOOKED INTO, UH, ALL OF THE OPTIONS AND IF THEY WERE POSSIBLE OR NOT.
AND I DON'T THINK EITHER KIND OF FEE, UH, DETERMINE WHAT KIND OF COLLECTION.
SO I THINK IT COULD BE, EVEN IF IT WERE TAX, IT COULD BE COLLECTED A NUMBER OF WAYS.
UM, THE VOTE OF THE PEOPLE OR IF IT WAS A FEE THAT PUT ON YOUR WATER BILL OR PUT ON THE TAX ROLL.
SO THE KIND OF FEE AND HOW IT, I DON'T THINK DETERMINED THE KIND OF COLLECT THE METHOD OF COLLECT MM-HMM.
IN SOME CASES IT DOES, BUT NOT NECESSARILY.
I WANNA BRING US BACK REAL QUICK JUST TO THE DISCUSSION ON LEVEL OF FUNDING, JUST FOR THE SAKE OF STICKING WITH OUR AGENDA AND, AND MAKING SURE THAT WE FOLLOW A LOGICAL PATH HERE, I GUESS.
UM, SO, UH, I, I RECEIVED THE FEEDBACK ABOUT, UM, COMPLIANCE ONLY LEVEL OF FUNDING.
UM, BUT HOWEVER, I, I DO FEEL THAT, UH, GOING
[00:25:01]
WITH THAT LEVEL OF FUNDING ON THE INITIAL PHASE IS WHAT'S IMPORTANT.LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT, UH, ADDRESSING THE COMPLIANCE ISSUES WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, GETTING THAT OUT OF THE WAY SO THAT WE CAN BUILD ON THAT, UH, CREATE A PROGRAM WHERE NOT ONLY ARE WE ACHIEVING COMPLIANCE, BUT GETTING AHEAD AND, AND, AND REALLY MOVING TOWARDS A TRUE MAINTENANCE PROGRAM THAT'S NOT, UH, SIMPLY JUST A COMPLAINT DRIVEN SYSTEM LIKE WE HAVE NOW.
UM, SO I DON'T WANT TO EVER TRY TO CHARACTERIZE THE COMPLIANCE LEVEL OF FUNDING AS GOOD ENOUGH.
UM, IT'S A, IT'S AN ESSENTIAL BILLING BLOCK IN MY OPINION.
UM, SO I WOULD LOVE TO SEE US TAKE A VOTE ON WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE COMMITTEE TO GO WITH COMPLIANCE ONLY.
SO I'LL MAKE THAT AS A MOTION, UH, THAT WE USE THE COMPLIANCE ONLY FUNDING OF 6.5 MILLION FOR THE LEVEL OF FUNDING.
DO WE HAVE A SECOND? UM, I'LL, I WILL SECOND AND I'LL MAKE SOME COMMENTS ON TOP OF IT BECAUSE I DO THINK AS A COMMITTEE, AS WE SIT ON JUNE 22ND, WE'VE HEARD THAT 6.5 MILLION ACHIEVES COMPLIANCE, WE'VE HEARD THAT 6.5 MILLION IS SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN FIGURED OUT BY THE WORK OF YOUR DEPARTMENT, ADAM, AND BY THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT, UH, FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS.
AND SO AS A COMMITTEE TODAY, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'VE GOTTA COMMIT TO A, A CERTAIN NUMBER.
I THINK WE CAN SAY TO THE COMMUNITY THE NEXT WE, WE ACHIEVE COMPLIANCE BASED ON THE KNOWLEDGE WE HAVE NOW WE'VE GOT THE NEXT TWO YEARS FIGURED OUT, WE'RE GONNA SPEND THE NEXT FEW MONTHS WITH THIS COMMITTEE TO REMAIN INTACT.
UH, EXPLAINING TO YOU COMMUNITY WHAT YOU COULD GET WITH ADDITIONAL DOLLARS AND LEVEL OF SERVICE.
AND SO YOU WON'T GET STREET SWEEPING WITH THE 6.5, BUT YOU WOULD, IF WE WENT TO THIS LEVEL, YOU WON'T GET LITTER CLEANUP OUT OF THE DITCHES WITH 6.5, BUT YOU WOULD, IF WE WENT TO THIS, I THINK WE CAN USE THE TIME TWO YEARS, MAYBE WE DON'T NEED THAT LONG, BUT THE NEXT FEW MONTHS TO EDUCATE OUR COMMUNITY ON, WE'VE ACHIEVED COMPLIANCE WITHIN THE BUDGET FOR AT LEAST TWO YEARS.
AND HERE'S WHAT WE WANT THE COMMUNITY TO KNOW.
WHAT YOU COULD HAVE TO REFERENCE WHERE YOU WERE GOING.
UM, AND, AND MAYBE IT'S NOT 19 POINT 19,000,205, MAYBE IT'S SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN.
BUT TAKE THE TIME TO GO TO THE COMMUNITY AND SAY, WE HEARD YOU LAST DECEMBER.
WE PULLED TOGETHER, FIGURED OUT, ACHIEVE COMPLIANCE, GOT TWO YEARS IN THE BANK, AND NOW WE'RE COMING TO YOU TO SAY, IF THIS IS THE COMMUNITY YOU WANT, THIS IS WHAT IT WOULD TAKE.
AND I THINK THIS COMMITTEE STAYS INTACT.
SO THERE'S MY SECOND
ADAM CAN, UH, I HAVE, THAT'S PART OF MY QUESTION.
THOUGHT HAD TO MAKE A DECISION CAUSE IT WOULD BE A YEAR LONG WAY OUT I IMPLEMENTING THAT.
SO I THOUGHT A DECISION WAS NEEDED IN A RELATIVELY NEAR FUTURE IF WE WANTED THIS FUNDING TO BE AVAILABLE VIA ANY ONE OF THESE FOR 25.
THAT WAS IF WE WANTED IT IN PLACE FOR 2025.
SHE, SHE'S FOUND A WAY TO PUT THIS IN PLACE FOR 2025.
I, I'LL TELL YOU, IT WOULD'VE, IT WOULD'VE BEEN A VERY AGGRESSIVE SCHEDULE TO MAKE A DECISION TODAY.
GET, GET PUBLIC INPUT, GO SEPTEMBER TO TO YEAH.
GET SOMETHING HAPPEN IN SEPTEMBER.
THERE THERE'S OTHER LOGISTICAL THINGS THAT HAVE TO HAPPEN.
A LOT WOULD'VE HAD TO HAPPEN IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME, BUT WE'VE NOW GOT AN ADDITIONAL YEAR, BUT WE'RE NOW TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO DO BETWEEN NOW AND THEN HAVING THE FUNDING IN PLACE FOR 2026, WHICH STILL MEANS WE NEED TO BE MOVING QUICKLY, JUST NOT AT THE VERY RAPID PACE THAT WE WOULD'VE BEEN IN THE PAST.
SO AS I CAN APPRECIATE COUNCIL HUDSON MOTION SECOND, THAT WAS A DECISION ON, WE ALREADY HAVE 24 COVER.
MY, MY MOTION IS FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS.
WELL, WE ALREADY GOT IT COVERED.
WHAT? WHY WOULD WE NEED THAT? WE, WE HAVE A PLAN IN PLACE TO ACHIEVE IT, BUT WE, WE HAVE NOT MADE THE RECOMMENDATION AS A COMMITTEE YET.
[00:30:01]
THERE'S BEEN NO RECOMMENDATION FROM US TO THIS POINT, TO, TO ACTUALLY GO WITH THAT PLAN.THEY'VE CREATED IT BECAUSE WE TALKED ABOUT IT AT OUR LAST COMMITTEE MEETING, BUT THIS COMMITTEE NEVER MADE THE RECOMMENDATION THAT, THAT ACTUALLY BE THE LEVEL OF SERVICE IN ORDER TO FIRST ACHIEVE COMPLIANCE.
WELL, IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE, AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS WE'VE GOT COMPLIANCE, SO LET'S START TALKING ABOUT DOING SOMETHING.
LET'S NOT JUST HAVE THE BARE MINIMUM.
LET'S CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ABOUT GETTING THIS RIGHT.
AND THAT'S WHY I THINK THE DISCUSSION HAS BEEN NOT TO DISSOLVE THE COMMITTEE TO, TO CONTINUE, YOU KNOW, LET'S, AGAIN, LET'S ACHIEVE COMPLIANCE.
USE THIS AS A BUILDING BLOCK, UH, GO TO THE COMMUNITY, GET FEEDBACK, UH, AND, AND BUILD ON THIS.
BUT AGAIN, COMPLIANCE, COMPLIANCE FIRST.
SO WHAT ARE WE VOTING ON? WE'RE VOTING ON THAT.
WE AGREE THAT SHE'S GONNA USE THAT MONEY TO GET US IN COMPLIANCE, ESSENTIALLY.
THAT THE FUNDING LEVEL IS 6.5.
UM, AND THEN THAT WOULD BE THE METHOD FOR THEM ACHIEVING THAT RECOMMENDATION OF 6.5 MILLION.
I THINK ALSO WHAT WHAT DWAY SUGGESTED IS WHILE WE'RE GETTING IN COMPLIANCE AND DOING EVERYTHING WE'RE REQUIRED TO DO, WE DO A DETAILED ASSESSMENT OF HOW WE DO IT, WHAT IS NEEDED EXTRA, WHAT WOULD WE NEEDED TO COVER THE EXTRA AND WHAT IT WOULD COVER.
WE'VE BEEN USING ARPA FUNDS, JUST THROWING MONEY OUT THERE, DOING THINGS.
NOW WE'VE GOTTA COME OUT OF THE BUDGET WITH IT.
SO WHILE WE'RE GETTING IN COMPLIANCE WITH THIS NEW FUNDING, LET'S LOOK AT EVERYTHING ELSE WE COULD DO AND WHAT IT WOULD COST.
KEEP THE COMMITTEE INTACT AND COME BACK TO THE RECOMMENDATION FOR, FOR ADDITIONAL, UH, CONTROLS THAT WE COULD PUT IN PLACE WITH EXTRA FUNDING.
DOES THE EPA OR D EQ HAVE AN OPINION TO ACHIEVE COMPLIANCE ON HOW MANY YEARS OF FUNDING AT COMPLIANCE? ONLY LEVEL FUNDING WOULD BE NECESSARY FOR THEM TO APPROVE YOUR MS FOUR.
WE JUST HAVE TO, WHEN WE TURN IN OUR ANNUAL REPORT, WE HAVE TO, WE TURN IN THE PRIOR YEAR SPENDING AND THEN THE FUTURE YEARS BUDGET AND WE JUST HAVE TO, UM, CERTIFY THAT WE HAVE THAT FUNDING IN PLACE FOR THAT FUTURE YEAR.
SO IT IS ONE, I GUESS THE, THE SHORT ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS IT'S ONE YEAR.
UM, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, UM, THE $6.5 MILLION THAT WE'RE VOTING ON IS THE MINIMUM RIGHT? OF THE, UH, THE COMPLIANCE ONLY, UH, WE'RE NOT VOTING ON HOW WE ARE GONNA FUND THAT BECAUSE THAT'S BEING DETERMINED WITH RESERVES, CORRECT? NO, WELL, CORRECT.
AND, UM, LIKE COUNCILMAN HUDSON SAID, IDEALLY WE'D LIKE TO GO DOWN THIS LIST, BUT THE FIRST THING WE WANT TO DO IS, IS DETERMINE THE LEVEL OF FUNDING.
WE, WE WILL THEN TALK ABOUT THE FUNDING MECHANISM NEXT.
SO IF WE VOTE ON THE LEVEL OF FUNDING AT 6.5 MILLION, IS THAT WHAT WE ARE COMMITTING OURSELVES TO? IS THAT THE ONE THAT THIS IS JUST GONNA BE AT THAT NUMBER.
THERE'S THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S GONNA BE THE END OF THAT DISCUSSION.
SO THAT IS THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THE COMMITTEE TO THE, THE MAYOR'S OFFICE AND THE METRO COUNCIL.
SO THAT CAVEAT NEEDS TO BE INCLUDED THOUGH TO, TO HIS, YEAH.
TO THE COUNCIL IN THIS POINT POINT, BECAUSE I, I GUESS MY CONCERN IS IF, IF WE COMMIT TO THE 6.5 MILLION, THEN DOES THAT GIVE YOU ANY TYPE OF ROOM FOR FLEXIBILITY IN THE FUTURE? I GUESS THAT'S MY, MY CONCERN.
DO YOU WANT TO, DO I HEAR, DO I HEAR A SUBSTITUTE MOTION OR, WELL, I THINK A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT WOULD BE THAT THE, THE RECOMMENDATION IS 6.5 FOR TWO YEARS.
UM, WE CAN BE CREATIVE, CREATIVE AS WE WANT WITH THESE MOTIONS, RIGHT? THIS IS NOT A METRO COUNCIL MEETING.
IT'S NOT AS FORMAL OF A PROCESS.
UM, I I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT'S NECESSARY.
I THINK WHAT WE UNDERSTAND, UH, AND AND WHAT THE MAYOR'S OFFICE IS ATTEMPTING TO DO WITH THE COMMITTEE, WHAT THEY'RE COMMITTING TO DO WITH THE COMMITTEE IS TO KEEP THE COMMITTEE ACTIVE, UH, TO KEEP THE DISCUSSION GOING AND USE THIS, UH, AS A, AS A FOUNDATION TO BUILD A PROGRAM ON.
UM, LOOK, SHUFFLING PAPERS WITH 6.5 MILLION DOES NOT ADDRESS OUR CONVEYANCE ISSUES.
IT DOESN'T ADDRESS OUR LITTER ISSUES.
UH, AND, AND SO THAT'S, I THINK WHAT, WHAT EVERYONE THE COUNCIL, THE MAYOR'S OFFICE AND, AND HOPEFULLY ALL OF YOU WANNA ACCOMPLISH IS, IS TO, TO GET INTO COMPLIANCE, ADDRESS THE ISSUES WITH
[00:35:01]
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SO WE DON'T GET HIT WITH HEAVY FINES AND THAT KIND OF THING.AND THEN START TO BUILD A PROGRAM THAT CAN BE PROACTIVE ABOUT MAINTAINING OUR DRAINAGE SYSTEM AND ADDRESSING, UH, WATER QUALITY IN OUR, IN OUR WATERWAYS.
CAN WE DO SOMETHING MORE THAN THE MINIMUM? CAN WE AMEND THAT PLEASE? TO, TO TAKE ON SOMETHING MORE THAN JUST THIS? IF, IF I CAN TAKE A SHOT AT, UH, RECOMMENDATION THAT IS ONE.
WE WANT TO CONTINUE DISCUSSION COMMITTEE TO DETERMINE DIRECT FUNDING UNTIL WE DO THAT, OUR RECOMMENDATION THAT THE CITY USE THEIR RESERVES TO MEET MINIMUM CLIENTS.
AND SO EVEN IF WE DECIDED TODAY, WE WANT TO RECOMMEND THAT THE COUNCIL USE SOME RESERVE TO MEET THEM.
CAUSE NOW THEY CAN SAY, THANKS FOR THE RECOMMENDATION, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT.
AND SO, UM, WE, WE, WE ARE TRYING TO JUST FILL THAT GAP TILL THIS IS, TILL A REAL AMOUNT IS APPROVED FUNDING MECHANISM THAT'S APPROVED AND ALL OF THAT STUFF IS SET UP.
THAT'S GONNA BE MONTHS AND MONTHS, MONTHS.
YOU'RE SAYING METRO COUNCIL, DURING THOSE MONTHS AND MONTHS MONTHS, WE WANT YOU TO MEET THE, THE MINIMUM FIND A WAY TO MEET MINIMUM, UH, BY USING FOR RESERVE.
THAT'S, AND SO WE'RE NOT MAKING A DECISION ON WHETHER IT IS DRIVING A CADILLAC OR WE'RE JUST TELLING THEM I, UNTIL WE MAKE A DECISION, MEET THE MINIMUM.
IT'S JUST REALLY DISAPPOINTING.
CAUSE I THOUGHT WHEN WE WERE ALL BROUGHT HERE TOGETHER, WE WERE ACTUALLY GONNA DO SOMETHING THAT WOULD MOVE IT FORWARD OTHER THAN JUST, YOU KNOW, PUT A BANDAID ON A BLEEDING WOUND.
WE COULD ALSO TELL 'EM, FIND 29 AND THEY GONNA SAY, SORRY, WE FILE SIX AND A HALF.
SO WE CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION AS THEY GET FINE TOO.
I I WOULD JUST SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER RECOMMENDATION WE MAKE, UH, HAS TO BE MADE WITH UNDER THE BACKDROP OF FINANCIAL REALITY.
RIGHT? UM, SO IF WE WANTED TO SAY 5 MILLION MORE, WE CAN SAY THAT, SURE, NO PROBLEM.
SO, BUT, BUT CAN WE ACTUALLY, CAN WE ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISH THAT? YOU KNOW, YOU SEND THAT TO THE COUNCIL AND, AND YOU HAVE NO PLAN TO ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISH IT.
WELL THEN I DON'T KNOW IF WE'VE DONE ANYTHING, UH, WITH THIS, BUT I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT WE WERE GONNA DO.
WE, WE, WE TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, GRANTS AND COMP, YOU KNOW, PUTTING TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, SMALL FEES, INCREMENTAL ALONG WITH COMMUNITY EDUCATION INVOLVEMENT OF THIS COMMITTEE.
I, I JUST THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT WE WERE DOING.
SO I GUESS WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY IS WE'RE NOT, WE'RE GONNA GET JUST THE BARE MINIMUM STOP, YOU KNOW, PUT THE BANDAID ON AND THEN WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO HAVE MEETING, HAVE HAVING MEETINGS SO THAT WE CAN FLUSH OUT A REAL STORM WATER MANAGEMENT PLAN, NOT JUST A IFIED DRAINAGE PROGRAM.
I GUESS THE OTHER OPTION THOUGH IS WE DON'T EVEN MEET THE MINIMUM.
SO THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING.
SO THERE IS A, A MOTION AND I THINK AN AMENDED MOTION ON THE FLOOR WITH THE SECOND.
IS THERE ANY OTHER COMMENT ON THAT FROM STANDPOINT? COULD YOU STATE THE ENTIRE MOTION WITH THE, THE MOTION? I CAN, I CAN, I CAN STATE IF YOU WANT.
THAT'D BE THE MOTION IS TO, UH, SET THE LEVEL OF FUNDING RECOMMENDATION FOR TWO YEARS AT 6.5 MILLION AT THE COMPLIANCE LEVEL OF 6.5 MILLION.
DO WE WANT TO SAY KEEP THE COMMITTEE INTACT? CONTINUE PURSUING? SURE.
LEMME JUST ASK ONE MORE QUESTION.
COULDN'T Y'ALL JUST DO THIS IN METRO COUNCIL? WHY COULDN'T Y'ALL JUST DO THIS EXACT SAME THING? WHAT DO YOU NEED US FOR? THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE.
WELL, WHY DIDN'T YOU, THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE.
I MEAN, WHY DIDN'T YOU DO IT THEN? BECAUSE COMMUNITY INPUT IS WHAT'S SO CRITICAL IN PROCESS.
I I I WOULD OFFER UP THIS IS THIS TO, THIS TO ME IS A WAY OF REBUILDING TRUST IN THE COMMUNITY.
NUMBER TWO, I THINK THE PROPOSAL THAT WE'RE MAKING NOW IS A WAY OF LOOKING OUR RESIDENTS IN THE EYE AND SAYING, WE HEARD YOU WE'RE GONNA ACHIEVE COMPLIANCE AND WE'RE GONNA DO IT FROM WITHIN OUR OWN POCKETBOOK, BUT WE'RE ALSO GONNA TAKE A REAL LONG-TERM LOOK AT WHAT WE'RE DOING IN OUR COMMUNITY, AND WE THINK WE'RE GONNA COME BACK TO YOU.
[00:40:01]
UH, WE'RE NOT READY TO TELL YOU THAT ON JUNE 22ND MM-HMM.BUT IF YOU WANT THESE OTHER THINGS FOR OUR COMMUNITY, THEN WE'RE RECOMMENDING THIS A MILLAGE FOR YOU, A FLAT FEE FOR YOU.
SO THAT'S WHAT I THINK IS COMING OUT OF THIS.
AND, AND I WOULD EMPHASIZE, I THINK WE'RE REESTABLISHING TRUST IN OUR COMMUNITY WITH THE PROPOSED ACTION WE JUST HEARD.
BUT I'M ALWAYS OPEN, YOU, YOU OF ALL PEOPLE TELL ME I'M WRONG ALL THE TIME.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THAT? ADAM? LET ME OFFER SOME SUGGESTIONS.
ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD LOOK AT IS ON STORMWATER MANAGEMENT.
I THINK FRED DID A VERY GOOD JOB ON MANAGING STORMWATER MANAGEMENT.
HE WENT TO H MTV, THEY PUT TOGETHER A PLAN, THEY DETERMINED ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE, ET CETERA.
THIS ALSO NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.
AND SO DURING THIS, WHAT BRODY'S TALKING ABOUT 18 TO 24 MONTHS DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME, WITHIN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS, I WOULD EXPECT THAT YOU WOULD PUT TOGETHER A PLAN WITH A TIMELINE.
AND THIS IS WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO ACCOMPLISH IN, IN LOOKING AT ALL OF THIS AND THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT, UH, HAVE TO GO AND BRING IT ALL TOGETHER.
THAT WAS THE ONLY PIECE THAT I WAS GONNA ADD TO THAT COMMENT IS I, I'VE ASKED I THINK THE LAST TWO MEETINGS TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT FLOOD REDUCTION.
AND YOU KNOW, DWIGHT, YOU MENTIONED CONVEYANCE.
I THINK WE HAVE BEEN WANTING, I THINK THEIR GENERAL PUBLIC TOO IS EXPECTING THAT IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE A VOTE ON A TOPIC OF STORM WATER, IT'S GONNA BE ABOUT FLOOD REDUCTION.
AND THIS HAS NOT YET GOTTEN TO THAT CONVERSATION.
SO I DON'T THINK IT'S WORTH US MOVING A NUMBER FORWARD UNTIL THIS BODY OR THE METRO COUNCIL SAYS, HERE'S A NUMBER THAT THAT NUMBER IS BOTH A BETTER MAINTENANCE SYSTEM AND FLOOD MITIGATION REDUCTION, UM, AND LITTER CLEANUP, WHICH HAS NOT EVEN COME UP IN THIS CONVERSATION FROM MY VANTAGE POINT.
AND SO I THINK IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THE COMMUNITY IS GONNA BE WANTING TO VOTE ON, I THINK THOSE ARE THE THINGS THEY'RE GONNA WANNA SEE IN A PLAN.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT MAINTENANCE ENTIRELY.
AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHY I THINK GETTING US THROUGH COMPLIANCE CONVERSATION IS IMPORTANT.
SO THIS GROUP CAN HAVE A BIGGER AND MORE SUBSTANTIVE CON CONVERSATION ABOUT REDUCING FLOOD MITIGATION AND REDUCING FLOODING.
AND THAT'S WHERE WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO YET.
SO I HOPE THAT THAT CAN MOVE US FORWARD TO THAT NEXT CONVERSATION.
I, I WILL COMMIT TO ASSUMING THE MOTION CARRIES AS AS IT WAS HEARD, AND IT, WE HAVE, WE CONTINUE TO HAVE MEETINGS.
I WILL COMMIT TO HAVE THAT TO YOU AT THE NEXT MEETING.
WE, WE, WE'VE, WE JUST NEED TO DO SOME INTERNAL VETTING OF THE NUMBERS THAT WE'VE PUT TOGETHER.
BUT NO, I KNOW YOU'VE HAD, I I JUST WANT TO, I KNOW YOU'VE ASKED FOR IT AND I, AND, AND I APOLOGIZE, BUT IT IS, IT IS, UH, THAT IT TAKES BONDING FOR THAT TYPE OF PLAN, AS YOU KNOW.
AND SO WE'RE, WE'RE PULLING THAT TOGETHER FOR YOU AND IT'LL BE PRESENTED AT A FUTURE MEETING.
HEY, ADAM, LET ME ADD ONE, ONE, UH, ITEM HERE.
YOU'VE GOT TWO DIFFERENT ITEMS HERE.
ONE IS STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, WHICH IS, WHICH GETS INTO WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, ADAM, IS FLOOD REDUCTION AND WE ALL WANT FLOOD REDUCTION.
MS FOUR IS A DIFFERENT CASE AND IT DOESN'T DEAL WITH FLOODS, IT DEALS WITH WATER QUALITY AND IT'S VERY SPECIFIC AND IT, IT ADDRESSES TOTAL SUSPENDED SOLIDS, UH, TOTAL, UH, ALLOW, UH, MAXIMUM BAY, UH, ALLOWANCES AND THINGS AND POLLUTANTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO IT'S CLEANING UP THAT TYPE OF STUFF.
I HEAR YOU ON, ON THE DEBRIS ON THE, UH, THE LITTER THAT GOES IN THERE.
BUT IS THAT REALLY MS FOUR? BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T ADDRESS THE ISSUES WITH MS FOUR, WHICH ARE POLLUTANTS TOTAL MAXIMUM DAILY ALLOW, UH, ALLOWABLES AND UH, UH, SUSPENDED SOLIDS.
AND THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS ADVISORY COMMITTEE WAS TO ADDRESS THAT.
THE LETTER IS A COMPONENT OF THE MS FOUR PERMIT.
UM, AND THEN ALSO THERE WAS A, THE REASON YOU'RE RIGHT.
SO THE FIRST MEETING WAS WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE STORMWATER MASTER PLAN AND THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PLAN? UH, BUT THERE WAS ULTIMATELY A, SOME DISCUSSION AT THE THIRD MEETING THAT, HEY, IF WE'RE GONNA BRING THIS TO THE PUBLIC, WE'RE GONNA COMBINE THIS INTO ONE PROGRAM THAT ADDRESSES
[00:45:01]
BOTH, BOTH QUALITY AND QUANTITY.SO THAT'S THE, UM, THE CONVERSATION THAT WE'RE OKAY, THAT WE'RE THEN I, ADAM, WE NEED, WE NEED TO BE TRANSPARENT WITH EVERYONE ON, ON THIS IS WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IT'S GONNA COVER AND WHAT'S GONNA BE IN THERE AND WHAT'S NOT GONNA BE IN THERE.
BECAUSE THAT'S THE BIG ISSUE WITH THE, WITH THE CITIZENS.
AND I GO BACK TO THE FIRST MEETING THAT WAS HELD, UH, LAST, LAST SEPTEMBER OR SO, AND THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WERE VERY UPSET ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON, AND THAT THEY FELT, FELT THAT THEY WERE BEING ASKED TO, TO PAY MORE, AND THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS GOING ON.
SO, AND THERE, THERE WAS A FAIR AMOUNT OF, WELL, WE'VE GOT THIS CONSENT DECREE, ET CETERA.
OKAY, WE NEED TO MOVE BEYOND THAT.
WE NEED TO BE VERY TRANSPARENT WITH PEOPLE THAT THIS IS WHAT'S HAPPENING.
SO THEY BUY INTO IT AND THEY BECOME SUPPORTERS OF IT, OTHERWISE GETS INTACT.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WILL BE ANGRY.
THEY'LL BE, THEY'LL FEEL THAT THEY'VE BEEN LET DOWN.
ONE, ONE THING WE NEED, YOU PROBABLY NEED TO UNDERSTAND THIS.
LIT, LIT IS ACTUALLY A, A PRIMARY COMPONENT OF, UH, MCM SIX, MINIMUM CONTROL MEASURE SIX, WHICH IS ELICIT DISCHARGES.
LITTER IS A BIG PART OF THAT IN BATON ROUGE.
AND THERE ARE ACTUALLY STORMWATER VOLUME CONTROLS IN THE MS FOUR PERMIT IN, UH, MCM ONE AND MCM FOUR FLOOD CONTROL PROJECTS AND STRUCTURAL CONTROLS.
SO MS FOUR, WHILE IT DOESN'T ADDRESS FLOODING PER SE, A LOT OF THE, THE THINGS IT REQUIRES ADDRESS FLOODING.
IT WON'T SAY IT BECAUSE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A POLLUTION CONTROLLED MEASURE FROM EPA, UHHUH
NO, IT COMES TO BOTH THE PRIMARY POLLUTION.
BUT FLOODING IS, IS REALLY A LOCAL ISSUE ALSO WITH THE COURT ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS.
SO, SO CAN I GET A, SO WE'VE GOT A MOTION AND A SECOND.
ARE THERE, I THINK I'LL ASK IT THIS WAY.
IS ANYONE OPPOSED TO THE, THE MOTION AS IT'S PRESENTED? CAN WE GIVE PUBLIC COMMENT IN CASE THERE'S ANY PUBLIC COMMENT I'M NOT LOOKING AT.
I'LL, I'LL BE, SO I AM, UH, I AM NOT ASHLEY BECK.
I'M AN ENGINEER TRYING TO, UH, TO RUN A MEETING.
UM, SO I WOULD ANYONE IN THE PUBLIC LIKE TO SPEAK ON THE PROPOSAL? I'M NOT, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THAT.
IF THAT'S NOT I, MARIE CONSTANTINE, I THINK I'M A CADILLAC, BUT I'M OKAY TO BE A CHEVY, BUT I DEFINITELY DON'T WANT TO BE A VOLKSWAGEN THAT'S BROKEN DOWN.
UM, I JUST WANNA SAY THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS JUST A SMALL SLICE OF WHAT WE LOOK LIKE.
AND THEN, UM, WE HAVE A LOT OF THESE THINGS, THESE KILL THE ANIMALS.
THE DIVING BIRDS GO DOWN, THEY GET STUCK.
AND THE BEAUTY OF THESE IS THEY KILL THE BIRD AND THEN ONCE THE BIRD DECAYS, THEY KILL ANOTHER ONE AND ANOTHER ONE AND ANOTHER ONE.
AND IF YOU GO DOWN TO CAPITOL LAKES, THEY HAVE THESE LITTLE, YOU CAN GET HANDFULS OF THESE LITTLE PLASTIC NERDS PUT OUT BY THE CHEMICAL INDUSTRY.
AND UM, THE THING ABOUT THE NERDS IS THE CHEMICAL INDUSTRY LOVES STORMWATER MANAGEMENT BECAUSE YOU CAN GRAB THESE DOWN TO A HAIR ON YOUR HEAD IF YOU PUT IN THE HYDRODYNAMIC SEPARATORS.
AND SO THEY REALIZE THAT THIS CAN HELP OUR STATE SINCE BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF THESE COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED FROM BEING IN CAPITOL LAKES.
HAD WE HAD A STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PROGRAM, BUT I'LL, I'LL WRAP IT UP.
I JUST WANTED TO SAY, PLEASE GIVE US SOMETHING LIKE 3 MILLION OR 5 MILLION.
SO CITIZENS AREN'T GONNA SEE COMPLIANCE.
WHAT THEY'RE GONNA SEE IS IF WE GET SOME STREET SWEEPERS OR IF WE HIRE SOME PEOPLE TO CLEAN SOME DESIGNATED AREAS, BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT THEY DID IN, UM, OTHER CITIES LIKE TALLAHASSEE IN PARTICULAR.
THEY WENT OUT WHEN THEY STARTED THEIR PROGRAM AND THEY STARTED HUMBLY AND THEY SHOWED THEM WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO AND THEN THEY DID IT AND THEY DID AN ANNUAL REPORT.
IF YOU PUT JENNIFER RICHARDSON ON A COMMITTEE LIKE THIS, I GUARANTEE YOU NOBODY'S GONNA TAKE THE MONEY AND DO SOMETHING BAD WITH IT.
OR IF YOU PUT KELLY HURTADO ON IT, THE SAME THING'S GONNA HAPPEN.
BUT PLEASE THROW IN SOME CANDY OR SOMETHING SO THAT, YOU KNOW, WE COULD GO ON AND BE IN COMPLIANCE AND THEN DO NOTHING AND BE A FILTHY CITY.
AND GREENVILLE IS, I FOUND OUT THEIR PROGRAM IS DECADES, 20 YEARS OLD AND ALL THEIR LITTER CLEANUP AND STUFF DOWNTOWN IS DONE THROUGH THEIR STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PROGRAM.
I CALLED THEM AND ASKED 'EM ABOUT IT CUZ IT WAS SO CLEAN WHEN I WENT THERE, I WAS IN SHOCK.
[00:50:01]
ME THEY RUN, UH, SIX TO 12 STREET SWEEPERS 24 7 AND THEY SWEEP THE, THEY SWEEP THE ENTIRE CITY, INCLUDING NEIGHBORHOODS EVERY WEEK AND THEN EVERY MORNING AT FOUR 30, CUZ I SAW 'EM WHEN I WAS GOING TO THE AIRPORT, THEY GO IN AND SIX OF THEM COME INTO THE CITY AND THEY DO THE DOWNTOWN.THEY'RE CLEANING THE DOWNTOWN CONSTANTLY.
I'M BEGGING YOU TO DO SOMETHING ABOVE THE VOLKSWAGEN, PLEASE.
ANYBODY ELSE? SO I'M GONNA ATTEMPT TO REPEAT THE MOTION ONE MORE TIME AND THEN WE CAN GO AHEAD AND I DID, DID WANNA MENTION ONE OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT, I BELIEVE IT WAS, IT WAS AT THE SECOND MEETING WHEN WE WERE ASKING HOW WE WOULD, WE WOULD RECORD VOTES AND THAT TYPE OF THING.
SO WE DO, WE ARE TAKING MINUTES, WE WILL RECORD YAYS AND NAYS, BUT I UNDERSTAND IT, WE ARE VOTING ON THE COMPLIANCE ONLY PORTION, WHICH IS SIX AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS WITH THE INTENT THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO MEET AS A COMMITTEE AND TO CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION MOVING FORWARD AND WITH THE THOUGHT PROCESS THAT WE WILL, UH, LOOK AT SOME AT, AT A HIGHER LEVEL OF SERVICE IN, IN THE FUTURE.
SO ANYONE, AND I THINK WE HAVE ONE, ONE OPPOSED? IS THERE ANYONE ELSE OPPOSED? SO WE HAVE, CAN WE SHOW, UH, THE LOUISIANA STORMWATER COALITION AND OPPOSITION AND ALL REMAINING MEMBERS THAT ARE HERE, I THINK, AND I GUESS I, BUT FOR, UH, ROLES LIKE THE, UH, REVEREND DIXON, UH, KEN DAWSON, AND I THINK THAT IS IT, BUT THOSE, THOSE TWO MEMBERS ARE, ARE NOT PRESENT.
SO WITH THAT, WE'D LIKE TO MOVE ON TO THE, THE FUNDING MECHANISM.
AND THAT'S WHERE WE GET INTO WHETHER IT'S, UH, IMPERVIOUS AREA, A SALES TAX, A PROPERTY TAX, A FLAT FEE.
UH, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK, WE, YES, WE HAVE A PLAN FOR THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE, BUT WE STILL WANT THE COMMITTEE'S RECOMMENDATION FOR THIS FEE.
WHAT TYPE OF FEE DO, DO Y'ALL RECOMMEND THAT? OR WHAT, WHAT FUNDING MECHANISM DO YOU RECOMMEND THAT WOULD BE PUT INTO PLACE SO THAT WE COULD COLLECT THE FUNDS NECESSARY TO OPERATE AT WHATEVER LEVEL OF SERVICE WE'VE CHOSEN TODAY AND WHATEVER WE MAY CHOOSE TO DO IN THE FUTURE? ADAM? YES, SIR.
I HAD REQUESTED AT THE LAST MEETING THAT BLACK AND VEATCH GIVE US AN AS TO WHAT THEY SAW WAS, UH, SUCCESSFUL ONE, ONES HAD BEEN PROBLEMATIC, UM, ON A POLITICAL LEVEL OR ON, ON A PRACTICAL LEVEL AND, AND IS BLACK AND BEACH ABLE TO GIVE US SOME DIRECTION ON THAT? YEAH, THAT'S SOMETHING WHAT, WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR IS, IS THERE CERTAIN TYPES OF CITIES THAT HAVE HAD THESE MORE SUCCESSFUL USING ONE TYPE OF COLLECTION METHOD VERSUS ANOTHER? AND DO YOU HAVE A RECOMMENDATION? SO IN TA IN TALKING ABOUT SUCCESS, I THINK THE WAY I WOULD LIKE TO STATE IS THAT FOR, FOR MUNICIPALITIES THAT HAVE TRIED TO DO FUNDING, ONE OF THE REASONS THEY GO IN FOR A DEDICATED USER FEE FUNDING IS MAINLY BECAUSE SALES TAX AND PROPERTY TAX FUNDING MECHANISMS ARE NOT SUSTAINABLE, NUMBER ONE.
NUMBER TWO, IT IS NOT SCALABLE.
CAUSE WHEN THE PROGRAM NEEDS CHANGES, IT'S DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO GET THE FUNDING MECHANISM THROUGH A SALES TAX OR A PROPERTY TAX.
SO LAST TIME I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT THE FUNDING MECHANISM SPECIFICALLY.
THE CHALLENGE WITH THE SALES TAX FUNDING MECHANISM ONE, OF COURSE, YES, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH AN VOTER APPROVAL PROCESS IN MANY PLACES THAT IN ITSELF IS NOT AN ISSUE.
BUT THE ISSUE REALLY BECOMES IN PLACES WHERE THEY DO HAVE A SALES TAX FUNDING MECHANISM, WE HAVE ANOTHER UTILITY.
FOR EXAMPLE, LEASE SUMMIT IN MISSOURI, THEY HAVE A SALES TAX FUNDED CAPITAL PROGRAM.
THE PROBLEM WITH THAT, IT SOME SETS, SO IT SUNSETS IN 2000 IN, IN BASICALLY THAT A 15 YEAR SUNSET TIMEFRAME.
SO WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT? THERE IS NO CERTAINTY ABOUT WHAT IS GONNA HAPPEN AFTER THAT WHEN THE INFRASTRUCTURE HAS TO BE MANAGED.
SECOND THING, WHEN YOU DO SALES TAX MECHANISM OF FUNDING, IT IS COMPLETELY SUBJECT TO ECONOMIC ACTIVITY
[00:55:01]
AND IT IS SUBJECT TO PURCHASES OF LOCAL SERVICES AND GOODS.SO IT'S COMPLETELY DRIVEN BY THAT, WHICH IN CERTAIN ECONOMIC CONDITIONS IS VERY DIFFICULT TO PREDICT.
SO THAT IS THE SECOND CHALLENGE OF T SALES TAX FUNDING MECHANISM.
AND THEN THE THIRD ONE IS AS THE PROGRAM GROWS AS REGULATIONS TODAY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT COMPLIANCE WITH WHAT WE KNOW TODAY THAT EPA IS ASKING FOR.
AN EXAMPLE I WILL GIVE YOU, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT WATER, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT WASTEWATER, FIVE YEARS AGO WE WERE NOT TALKING P FFA S AND TODAY WE ARE, COULD WE ANTICIPATE THAT WE COULDN'T, BUT IT IS HAPPENING NOW, RIGHT? SO STORM WATER IS NO DIFFERENT.
THERE ARE THINGS THAT CAN EVOLVE OVER A PERIOD OF TIME.
SO THE NEED FOR CERTAIN FUNDING CHANGES COULD HAPPEN BECAUSE IT IS A UTILITY LIKE WATER AND SEW.
SO WHEN YOU HAVE A SALES TAX FUNDING MECHANISM, IT'S DIFFICULT TO ALIGN WITH THOSE EVOLVING CHANGES.
SO THAT'S WHAT THE SALES TAX MECHANISM.
THE LAST POINT ABOUT THE SALES TAX MECHANISM IS THAT WHILE SALES TAX IS A FUNDING MECHANISM THAT SOME COMMUNITIES ARE USING NOT FOR ENTIRE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PROGRAM AND CERTAINLY NOT FOR OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE PROGRAM.
COUPLE OF EXAMPLES, KANSAS CITY, MISSOURI AND LEAVES THEM AT, THEY'RE USING SALES TAX FUNDING MECHANISM FOR SOME CAPITAL PROJECTS, AGAIN WITH A SUNSET TIMEFRAME FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, BUT NOT FOR THEIR OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE AND MS FOUR COMPLIANCE KIND OF PROGRAMS, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT PROPERTY TAXES, PROPERTY TAXES AND SALES TAXES, BOTH OF THEM HAVE ONE ISSUE THAT IT IS, THEY BOTH DO NOT HAVE A DIRECT CORRELATION TO THE PROPERTIES THAT CONTRIBUTE RUNOFF.
SO THAT'S A FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM THAT THERE IS NO DIRECT CORRELATION.
AND SO IN THE CASE OF A PROPERTY TAX, IT'S BASED ON ASSESSED VALUE OF A PROPERTY, THERE IS A MILLAGE FEE.
SO NEW ORLEANS IN LOUISIANA, NEW ORLEANS HAS A DEDICATED STORMWATER MILLAGE FEE.
AGAIN, THAT CAN ONLY PROVIDE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY.
IS IT SCALABLE TO HAVE THE COMPLETE NEEDS? IT'S NOT ST.
LOUIS MSD HAS A SALES TAX, HAS A PROPERTY TAX, HAS A LEDGE FEE.
UH, THEY HAVE TWO SMALL MILLAGE FEE, BUT THAT IS STILL NOT ENOUGH.
SO THEY JUST FILED THE RATE CASE FILING WHERE THEY NEED FUNDING THROUGH, UH, IMPERVIOUS AREA MECHANISM.
SO THE FIRST QUE THE QUESTION, I KNOW I'VE GIVEN A LONG ANSWER, BUT IS IT A SUCCESSFUL WAY OF FUNDING A STORMWATER PROGRAM? NOT REALLY.
THAT IS WHY THERE ARE 2000 STORMWATER USER FEE PROGRAMS WITH DEDICATED USER FEE CHARGED.
AND MAJORITY OF THOSE 2000 PROGRAMS, 98% OF THEM ARE REALLY BASED ON IMPERVIOUS AREA.
THAT IS BECAUSE THAT'S A WAY THE DEDICATED FUNDING MECHANISMS REALLY CAN WORK.
UM, SO IT IT ADDRESSES THE ISSUE OF STABILITY.
IT, IT IS DIFFICULT TO ADDRESS STABILITY WITH THE SALES TAX, PROPERTY TAX.
IT'S DIFFICULT TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF EQUITY OF COST RECOVERY AS TO WHO'S PUTTING THE BURDEN OF STORMWATER IN THE SYSTEM AND WHERE ARE YOU ACTUALLY COLLECTING THE MONEY FROM.
THE THIRD ISSUE IS THE SCALABILITY ASPECT.
SO WHEN PROGRAM NEEDS EVOLVE AND CHANGE, ARE YOU ABLE TO QUICKLY CHANGE THE SALES TAX AND THE PROPERTY TAX FUNDING MECHANISM? AND NOT REALLY, THERE IS EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE THAT SOME OF THESE ENTITIES THAT ESTABLISHED A SALES TAX AND PROPERTY TAX, THEY'VE NOT BEEN ABLE TO CHANGE IT.
SO THESE ARE ALL THE PRACTICAL PROBLEMS OF THE SALES TAX VERSUS PROPERTY TAX FUNDING MECHANISM.
SO A SHORTER ANSWER WOULD BE IMPERVIOUS WOULD BE, WOULD BE YOUR RECOMMENDATION.
IS THAT FAIR TO SAY? IF YOU WANT TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF STABILITY, REVENUE CERTAINTY, EQUITY OF COST RECOVERY AND REALLY TREAT THE STORMWATER UTILITY SIMILAR TO A UTILITY OR LIKE A WATER UTILITY AND A SEW SEWER UTILITY AND ELECTRIC UTILITY, THEN YOU DO HAVE TO HAVE A USER FEE FUNDING MECHANISM.
AND WOULD YOU, UH, AGREE THAT THIS IS A COMPONENT, PART OF THE OVERALL ASPECT OF PUTTING TOGETHER A CAPITAL PROGRAM THAT MAY HAVE TO HAVE SALES TAX AND PROPERTY TAX AND IMPERVIOUS TO HAVE AN ENTIRE PACKAGE OF THAT.
UM, AND YOU'RE AWARE OF THE H AND T B REPORT, CORRECT? CORRECT.
SO WOULD IT ALSO BE YOUR THOUGHT AND RECOMMENDATION THAT MAYBE THIS COMMITTEE COULD BE INVOLVED WITH HELPING TO VET THE COMPONENT PARTS OF THE COMPLETE PACKAGE? THAT IS CORRECT.
AGAIN, AS FROM A, FROM A PERSON WHO DOES STORM WATER ALL ACROSS WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT A STORMWATER PROGRAM, YES IT IS A HOLISTIC PROGRAM FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS COMMITTEE.
MY UNDERSTANDING AS WE STARTED AS YES, THERE WAS A BIT OF A COM COMPARTMENTALIZATION WHERE WE SAID FIRST LET US ADDRESS THIS NON H N T B, THE NON, NON BIG PROJECTS, LET'S ADDRESS THAT BECAUSE THERE WAS NOT EVEN A MECHANISM TO ADDRESS THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
I THINK YOU ARE ALL USING THE CORRECT TERMS THAT IT IS A BUILDING BLOCK.
THE QUESTION IS HOW MANY BUILDING BLOCKS WOULD YOU TAKE AND WHEN WOULD YOU TAKE IT? BUT THE POINT IS YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE TO START IT.
AND SO THAT IS REALLY THE ISSUE WE ARE FACING RIGHT NOW.
IT'S NOT ABOUT REALLY THE TWO YEARS, IT'S REALLY ABOUT
[01:00:02]
THIS PROGRAM, THE OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE PROGRAM, THE COMPLIANCE PROGRAM, THEY ALL HAVE TO HAVE A LEG BEYOND 2025.SO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS IMPORTANT.
THAT SECOND THING REALLY IS THAT YES, IT COULD BE, NOBODY IS EVER SAYING THAT THE STORMWATER USAGE CHARGES ARE ONLY FUNDING MECHANISM.
IT VARIES FROM COMMUNITY COMMUNITIES.
THERE ARE SOME COMMUNITIES LIKE I'VE MENTIONED BEFORE, PHILADELPHIA WATER DEPARTMENT, SEATTLE, LIKE TALLAHASSEE.
THERE ARE COMMUNITIES LIKE UNIFIED GOVERNMENT OF WYANDOT COUNTY.
UH, THEY'RE ALL SUPPORTING ALL OF STORMWATER CAPITAL PROGRAM AND OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE PROGRAM, LARGE CAPITAL, SMALL CAPITAL THROUGH DEDICATED USER FEE FUNDING MECHANISM.
THEY ARE NOT RELYING ON SUPPORT FROM THE GENERAL FUND OR FROM SOME OTHER AVALOR TAX MECHANISM.
THERE ARE COMMUNITIES THAT AT KANSAS CITY, UH, MISSOURI, WHERE THEY DO HAVE A USER CHARGE PROGRAM AND THEN THEY ALSO HAVE A SUPPORT COMING FROM THE SALES TAX FUNDING MECHANISM.
SO YES, IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S ONLY ONE WAY YOU COULD, YOU COULD SEE WHAT IS PRACTICAL, BUT THE POINT IS, IS ENTIRELY RELYING ON JUST A TAX FUNDING MECHANISM HAS NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL.
CAUSE HONESTLY, IF THAT WAS THE CASE, THEN EVEN WATER AND SEWER WOULD'VE BEEN FUNDED THAT WAY, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
WHAT REMIND US IS WHAT, WHAT YOUR RECOMMENDATION WAS ABOUT THAT? CORRECT.
DEPENDING ON IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE BILLING IT THROUGH THE TAX ASSESSOR'S BILLING SYSTEM, THAT'S WHERE WE SAID THEY HAVE A SPECIFIC CYCLE.
THEY SEND THE BILLS OUT IN NOVEMBER, THEY HAVE TO HAVE THE STORMWATER TAX ROLL BY SEPTEMBER.
SO YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THAT CYCLE.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU'RE TALKING REALLY ABOUT 26 GENERATING MONEY FOR 26, THEN THE STORMWATER CHARGE, IF IT'S GOING THROUGH A TAX ASSESSOR'S BILL, IT HAS TO GO OUT IN 2025 NOVEMBER, IT HAS TO BE THERE.
SO WHICH MEANS BY 2025 AUGUST, THE ROLE ITSELF HAS TO BE PREPARED AND VETTED AND QUALITY CONTROL SO THAT IT CAN THEN GO THROUGH THE BILLING CYCLE.
THAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THE LAST QUARTER OF 2025.
THAT'S WHAT WOULD HELP THEN COLLECT THE REVENUES FOR 2026.
SO IF THE TAX ROLE AND EVERYTHING HAS TO BE PREPARED BY AUGUST OF 2025, THEN A DECISION ON WHETHER YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A USER CHARGE HAS TO BE MADE BY DECEMBER OF 2024 OR AT LEAST JANUARY, 2025.
UM, AND HAVE, AND EVEN IDEALLY EVEN BEFORE THAT, BECAUSE IF IT IS A TAX ACCESS ASSESSOR SYSTEM, THEN AT LEAST A SYSTEM IS THERE, YOU CAN BUILD THROUGH IT.
IF IT IS DECIDED THAT IT IS GOING BE THROUGH A WATER COMPANY UTILITY BILLING SYSTEM, THEN THERE'S MORE WORK.
BECAUSE NOW THE PROCESS, YOU ALREADY, YOU ALREADY SAID, YOU ALREADY, YOU ALREADY SAID THAT WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA FOR BATON ROUGE BECAUSE COURSE I CAN'T DO THAT.
THE BATON ROUGE WATER COMPANY IS PRIVATELY OWNED.
CORRECT? IT, IT'S NOT BECAUSE IT'S PRIVATELY OWNED AT THIS TIME.
WHEN WE'VE DONE THE DUE DILIGENCE LAST TIME, THEY SAID THEY, THEY HAVE AN OLD BILLING SYSTEM.
NOW IN, NOW WE ARE TALKING 2020.
EARLIER WE WERE TALKING 20, 25 UNTIL TODAY.
RIGHT NOW WE ARE TALKING 2026.
SO THAT GIVES YOU ANOTHER MONTH, 12 MONTHS NOW, ADDITIONAL.
SO IN THE MEANTIME, IF THE WATER COMPANY IS CHANGING THEIR BILLING SYSTEM AND IF THEY'RE ABLE TO COLLABORATE AND THEY'RE ABLE TO MANAGE IT, YEAH.
THEN, SO WE ARE NOT RULING OUT ANYTHING AT THE TIME WHEN WE DID THE DUE DILIGENCE EVALUATION WITH THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE CHARGE WILL GO LIVE IN 2024 NOVEMBER, THEN IT WAS DEFINITELY A DIFFICULT SITUATION.
NOW, NOW IT'S SEEMS LIKE IT'S EXTENDING BY ANOTHER YEAR, SO, OKAY.
THAT WOULD, THAT ANSWERED MY QUESTION.
SO JUST FOLLOWING UP ON THAT, ADAM, UH, AND, AND MAKING SURE WE ALL UNDERSTAND, WE DON'T HAVE 24 MONTHS.
POINT ABOUT A SCHEDULE TRANSPARENT.
UM, AND IF THIS DOES HAVE TO GO TO THE VOTERS, ALL THOSE, THEIR TIMELINES, PUT THINGS ON BALANCE THAT, UM, I'M NOT PUTTING YOU ON THE SPOT NOW, BUT WE, WE, WE DO NEED TO TALK FROM THAT AND BACK UP UNTIL WHEN HE, UH, AND I GUESS MY OTHER COMMENT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FUNDING MECHANISM, BUT WE KNOW THE FUNDING MECHANISM NEXT TWO YEARS, UH, UNLESS VOTING YEARS, I DON'T KNOW WHY WE, I GET THE, THE THOUGHT WOULD BE THAT WE WOULD GET, GET A RECOMMENDATION ON, UH, YOU'RE RIGHT.
[01:05:01]
NOT, IT'S NOT NEXT YEAR.IT'S NOT THE FOLLOWING YEAR, BUT THAT WE WOULD GET A RECOMMENDATION ON THE FUNDING MECHANISM BECAUSE TO, TO MOVE INTO THE STORMWATER CREDIT, UH, CONVERSATION, WE REALLY NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE MECHANISM'S GONNA BE.
UM, A A LOT OF THESE CREDITS KIND OF GO AWAY IF YOU DON'T GO WITH THE IMPERVIOUS AREA B THAT WE WERE, THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.
SO THERE, THERE'S SOME ONE DOES AFFECT THE OTHER.
UM, SO THAT, THAT WAS, THAT WAS THE THOUGHT PROCESS.
AND, AND I, I WOULD SAY TOO, THAT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WITH THERE, THERE'S, THERE'S ALWAYS THE OPPORTUNITY TO, TO, TO DISCUSS IT AGAIN.
BUT WE WOULD TO, TO BE ABLE TO START REALLY MAKING SOME DECISIONS ON, ON MAKING SOME FUTURE DECISIONS.
WE NEED TO MAKE SOME DECISIONS TODAY SO WE CAN KIND OF RULE.
IT'S LIKE, ALL RIGHT, WE'RE, WE'RE PAST THIS.
LIKE, IF I'M GONNA JUST SAY WE'RE DONE WITH SALES TAX, WE'RE NOT, NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT ANYMORE.
I'M NOT TRYING TO SWAY, I'M JUST SAYING WE'RE OKAY, WE'RE DONE WITH THIS.
SO NOW WE'RE, WE'RE COMING TO, UH, A CONCLUSION.
UH, AND BASED ON THAT, BASED ON THE FACT THAT THE HIGHEST SUSPECTS IN THE COUNTRY BASED ON THE PROPERTY FACT JEOPARDIZE MY PROPERTY, FACT, I, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE MOVE ON THE INFER AREA.
I SECOND THAT MOTION BASED UPON THE FACT THAT THAT'S BEST PRACTICES AROUND THE COUNTRY FROM THE STORMWATER COALITION'S RESEARCH.
SO WE HAVE A MOTION IN A SECOND.
I THINK WE HAVE, I WOULD LIKE TO, BEFORE THAT MOTION IS MADE, MAKE A ALTERNATIVE SUGGESTION.
WE'RE GOING OFF, GOING ABOUT THIS, UH, METHOD OF FUNDING FROM A EQUITY APPROACH.
EVERYBODY HAS TO BE EQUALLY, UH, DISSATISFIED, UNBURDENED, UH, BY HOW MUCH PROPERTY, THEY DON'T, HOW MUCH IMPERVIOUS AREA.
WE'RE GONNA DO ALL THESE CALCULATIONS AND THEY'RE GONNA GET INTO CREDITS AND EVERYBODY'S GONNA BE ASKING FOR CREDITS.
AND IT'S, IT'S GONNA GET REALLY COMPLICATED FOR NO REAL REASON.
I THINK WE NEED TO APPROACH THIS, THIS PROBLEM FROM THE POINT OF WHAT ROWDY SUGGESTED, WHILE WE'RE GETTING MEETING THE MINIMUM, WE'RE GONNA BE EVALUATING WHAT THE COST IS GONNA BE TO DO ALL THESE EXTRA THINGS TO GET TO THIS CADILLAC PROGRAM THAT WE'D LIKE TO HAVE.
AND IN THE TWO YEARS THAT WE'RE DOING THE MINIMUM WITH FUNDS WE HAVE ON HAND, WE'RE ACCUMULATING COST EVALUATIONS IN DETAIL OF WHAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE.
SO WHY DON'T WE GO ABOUT THIS FROM WHAT IT'S GONNA TAKE TO MEET THOSE COSTS WITHOUT GETTING TOO COMPLICATED, JUST TO IMPOSE A, IMPOSE A FLAT FEE TO GET TO YOUR STORMWATER REQUIRED FUNDING CAN BE ONE FEE FOR ALL RESIDENTIAL AND THEN A GRADUATED FEE FOR COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL PROPERTIES BASED ON THE SIZE AND AND IMPACT OF THE PROPERTIES.
YOU CAN EASILY CALCULATE THAT.
CAUSE YOU'VE ALREADY GOT ALL THE, ALL THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF ALL THE PROPERTIES IN THE, IN THE, UH, PARISH ALREADY.
YOU JUST IMPOSE YOUR FEES BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT YOU WANT TO IMPOSE, UH, WANT TO, UH, GATHER, BE BACK INTO IT, AND THEN YOU DON'T HAVE ANY CREDITS.
YOU START, YOU START GIVING PEOPLE CREDITS FOR STORMWATER, A LOT OF WHICH THEY ALREADY HAD TO, TO IMPOSE, BUT IN ORDER TO GET THE PERMIT TO BUILD THE PROPERTY IN THE FIRST PLACE, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE EVERYBODY AND HIS BROTHER COME TO YOU WITH HAT IN HAND LOOKING FOR A CREDIT.
YOU'RE GONNA SPEND ALL YOUR TIME EVALUATING THIS VERSUS THAT.
WHAT'S A BETTER CREDIT? WHAT'S NOT? IT'S VERY SUBJECTIVE.
UH, A LOT OF PEOPLE MAY TAKE YOU TO COURT.
IT'S, IT'S, IT'S NOT WORTH THE EFFORT.
I THINK YOU JUST IMPOSE A FLAT FEE.
THE FEE IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE BY THE COUNCIL IN THE FUTURE AS THESE COSTS COME AVAILABLE FOR WHAT THINGS THAT YOU SEE YOU WANT TO DO IN THE FUTURE.
AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO BACK AND CALCULATE ALL YOUR SQUARE FOOTAGE AND WORRY ABOUT YOUR CREDITS.
SO MY, MY ALTERNATIVE MOTION WOULD BE THAT WE DO THIS WITH A FLAT FEE FOR RESIDENTIAL AND A GRADUATED FEE FOR A COMMERCIAL.
YOU CAN SCALE THE FEES DEPENDING ON HOW, THE AMOUNT OF FUNDS YOU HAVE TO RAISE.
AND I SECOND MR. IVAN'S SUBSTITUTE MOTION.
SO I THINK JUST TO LET, LET ME JUST CLARIFY WHAT, SO ON THE, ON THE SECOND PAGE OF, OF THE HANDOUT, ONE OF THE, THE, UH, SCENARIOS THAT WE, WE THREW OUT, AND IT WAS JUST ONE OF MANY, BUT WE HAD A RESIDENTIAL SLASH VACANT, A NINE RESIDENTIAL SLASH COMMERCIAL, AND THEN AN INDUSTRIAL.
I THINK WHAT MR. AVANTI IS SUGGESTING IS THAT WE HAVE, WE KEEP THE RESIDENTIAL SLASH VACANT, AND THEN WE HAVE A FEW TIERS THAT, AND THAT CAN EVEN BE, I DON'T, I MAY BE PUTTING THE WORDS IN HIS MOUTH NOW, BUT SOME TIERS THAT CAN BE DETERMINED AT A LATER DATE FOR RESIDENTIAL SLASH COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL.
DID I GET THAT RIGHT? ALL OF THE FEES WOULD BE DETERMINED BY HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE TO RAISE TO GET TO THE PROJECTS THAT YOU WANT TO IMPOSE.
[01:10:01]
YES.BUT THE, THE TIER, I THOUGHT I HEARD YOU SAY THERE WOULD BE TIERS OF, THERE WOULD BE VARIABLE TIERS IN COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL.
CAUSE YOU DON'T WHAT THIS, THE MOM AND POP GROCERIES PAYING THE SAME THING AS EXXON.
I WOULD SAY THE SAME FOR RESIDENTIAL.
THEN IF WE'RE GONNA DO TIERED, BECAUSE THERE'S DIFFERENT TIERS OF RESIDENTIAL MULTIFAMILY, UM, YOU KNOW, OKAY, I WOULD LIKE HEAR FROM LACK, WELL, SOME OF THE TALENT OR MAYBE SOME OF THE POSITIVE, CERTAINLY THE SIMPLIFICATION OF IT IS
BUT IN TERMS OF SCALABILITY, EQUITY, SO LET ME TALK ABOUT RESIDENTIAL.
UM, FLAT FEE AMONG FOR RESIDENTIAL IS, IS A COMMON PHENOMENON.
UM, AGAIN, IN THE PA ESPECIALLY, IT WAS A COMMON PHENOMENON HISTORICALLY BECAUSE GATHERING IMPERVIOUS AREA DATA AND MAINTAINING IT WAS LOT MORE COMPLEX BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE KIND OF THE TECHNOLOGY SUPPORT THAT WE HAVE THESE DAYS.
SO BECAUSE OF THAT, UTILITIES HAD ESTABLISHED A STORMWATER PROGRAM 15, 20 YEARS AGO.
THEY DID ESTABLISH A FLAT FEE FOR RESIDENTIAL.
UM, NOW THE SAME COMMUNITIES, SOME OF THEM ARE ACTUALLY TRANSITIONING TO AWAY FROM THE FLAT FEE, PRIMARILY BECAUSE OF, UM, KAREN WAS MENTIONING THE EQUITY REASONS WHERE THERE'S A BIG DISTRIBUTION OF RESIDENTIAL, WHICH IS WHAT WE SEE IN BATON ROUGE AS WELL.
YOU HAVE 800 SQUARE FEET RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY AND 8,000 SQUARE FEET RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY UNDER A FLAT FEE, EVERYBODY WILL BE PAYING THE SAME.
SO BECAUSE OF THAT, THERE ARE SOME COMMUNITIES THAT ARE MOVING AWAY.
SO YOU DO HAVE A MIX OF, THERE ARE COMMUNITIES THAT DO ONLY FLAT FEE FOR RESIDENTIAL.
THERE ARE COMMUNITIES THAT DO TIER, FOR EXAMPLE, WILMINGTON IN DELAWARE.
NEWARK IN DELAWARE ARE, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TIERED, UH, RESIDENTIAL CHARGE.
AND THEN THERE ARE ALSO COMMUNITIES THAT ARE RECENTLY HAVE, UH, VOTED FOR INDIVIDUALLY CALCULATED RESIDENTIAL CHARGE, LIKE UNIFIED GOVERNMENT OF VDOT COUNTY.
THEY HAD A FLAT FEE THE LAST 10, TWO DECADES, ALMOST ONE FLAT FEE FOR RESIDENTIAL.
AND THEN RECENTLY THEY EVEN TRANSITIONED TO A ONE FLAT FEE FOR RESIDENTIAL AND A HIGHER FLAT FEE FOR NON RESIDENTIAL.
NOW, RECENTLY, LAST NOVEMBER, THE, THE COUNCIL VOTED AND EVERYBODY'S NOW GONNA MOVE TO INDIVIDUALLY CALCULATED IMPERVIOUS AREA.
THE REASON FOR THAT IS THIS, WHEN THE PROGRAM HAS TO GROW, THEY WERE, THEY WERE SITTING WITH A THREE AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS WAS WHAT THEY WERE GENERATING FOR YEARS BECAUSE THEY NEVER CHANGED THE FLAT FEE.
NOW THEY FIND THAT THEY NEED TO GO FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENTS AND EVERYTHING.
THEY HAVE TO SCALE UP TO ALMOST 11 MILLION PER YEAR.
SO WHEN YOU TAKE A FLAT FEE APPROACH, NOW THE THREE AND A HALF MILLION, NOW YOU HAVE TO COLLECT 11 MILLION FROM THE SAME NUMBER OF PARCELS.
EVERY PARCEL'S CHARGE IS JUST GOING TO GO HIGHER.
AND TYPICALLY THE RESIDENTIAL PUTS THE BURDEN BECAUSE THE RESIDENTIAL CHARGE GOES REALLY SKYROCKETING IN THAT SITUATION.
SO THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THEY REALIZED, THE COUNCIL REALIZED AFTER ALL THE EDUCATION THAT IF YOU HAVE TO GO FROM A THREE AND A HALF MILLION TO 11 MILLION CONTINUE TO HAVE A FLAT FEE IS NOT SUSTAINABLE BECAUSE IT'S GONNA PUT UNDUE BURDEN ON THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES BECAUSE THEY ARE THE MAJORITY PROPERTIES.
THIS IS EVEN WHEN THEY HAD A GRADUATED DIFFERENT, UH, HIGHLY LITTLE HIGHER RATE FOR THE NON-ESSENTIAL.
THEN SECONDLY, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE NON RESIDENTIAL, WE DO SURVEY EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS.
MAJORITY OF THE MUNICIPALITIES THAT DO HAVE A STORMWATER CHARGE, THEY DO NOT DO A FLAT FEE FOR NON-REAL.
THE PRIMARY REASON IS THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT DISTRIBUTION OF IMPERVIOUS AREA.
YOU HAVE AN 800,000 SQUARE FEET MOM AND POP SMALL STORE, AND THEN YOU HAVE IMPERVIOUS AREA IN THE ORDER OF MILLIONS OF IMPERVIOUS AREA, SQUARE FEET OF NON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES.
AND YOU PUT THEM EVEN INTO TIERS.
ONE OF THE PROBLEMS YOU RUN INTO IS HOW MANY TIERS WILL CREATE THE EQUITY.
WE'VE TRIED IN ONE COMMUNITY, WE TRIED 13 TIERS AND THAT STILL DIDN'T CUT IT BECAUSE WE'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE A MILLION SQUARE FEET PROPERTY, A 5 MILLION, 5 MILLION SQUARE FEET OF IMPERVIOUS AREA.
THEY'RE GOING TO BENEFIT BECAUSE HOW MANY TIERS CAN YOU CREATE? THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE TYPICALLY FIND THAT UTILITIES GO IN FOR EITHER A FLAT FEE FOR RESIDENTIAL OR WHERE THEY WANT A LITTLE MORE EQUITY.
THEY GO IN FOR A TIERED FOR RESIDENTIAL, AND THEN TYPICALLY THEY ALWAYS STAY ON THE SIDE OF INDIVIDUALLY CALCULATOR CHARGE FOR NON-ESSENTIAL PROPERTIES.
OTHERWISE, IT DOES CREATE SOME LEVEL OF SHIFT FROM TYPICALLY, AND THE SHIFT ALWAYS HAPPENS FROM PROPERTIES THAT HAVE A LOT OF IMPERVIOUS AREA.
YOU'RE SHIFTING THE COST RECOVERY FROM THAT GROUP TO GROUP THAT HAS SMALL AMOUNTS OF IMP IMPERVIOUS AREA.
SO WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY IS, UM, A HYBRID OF WHAT'S BEEN PRESENTED HERE IS AN OPTION.
SO YOU SAID THE, THE TIERED, UH, FLAT FEE FOR RESIDENTIAL WITH THE IMPERVIOUS, UM, SPACE FOR THE
[01:15:01]
COMMERCIAL.AND, AND WHEN I SAY TIERED, THE TIERS ARE ALSO BASED ON IMPERVIOUS AREA, EXCEPT THAT YOU HAVE CALCULATING INTO, FOR EACH PROPERTY, YOU'RE PUTTING THEM INTO FOUR OR FIVE TIER BASED ON IMPERVIOUS AREA, BASED ON EACH PROPERTY'S OWN IMPERVIOUS AREA.
YOU'RE PUTTING THEM INTO TIER.
AND THEN YOU'RE CHARGING THEM A MONTHLY CHARGE.
WELL, I'M WILLING, COREY, YOU'RE WILLING TO CONSIDER THAT AS A HYBRID FORM? I AM, IF YOU WANNA AMEND WHAT YOU SAID.
I'LL SECOND THAT IF YOU AMENDMENT, THERE YOU GO.
AND SO FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO THE FIRST MOTION, UM, THAT RECOMMENDATION FOR A HERE SLASH INSTRUCTOR BASED ON THE PREVIOUS AREA FOR RESIDENTIAL AT, UH, ALL NON-RESIDENT COMMERCIAL.
THAT THE RIGHT WAY TO SAY IT, VERSUS NON-RESIDENTIAL INDIVIDUALLY CALCULATED FOR ALL THE NON-RESIDENT.
TO HIS POINT, WE WILL BE THE FIRST TIME.
WELL, YOU SHOULD BE, BUT THAT IS A RETAIN MOST OF THE WATER IN THE CITY IN YOUR PART.
BUT THAT IS A WAY OF SAYING GOVERNMENT IS INCLUDED, INCLUDING THE MEMBERS OF THIS COMMISSION WHO ARE CONSIDERING THEMSELVES AS GOVERNMENTAL BODIES NEED TO KNOW THAT THEY ARE PART OF THAT CONVERSATION.
EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOT LISTED AS A FLAT FEE CATEGORY.
AND I, I WOULD WANT TO POINT OUT TOO, JUST FOR MISS CTO'S, UH, COMMENT EARLIER, SO, UH, MULTI-FAMILY WOULD BE AS COMMERCIAL IS COMMERCIAL IN THE WAY IT'S SEPARATED OUT RIGHT NOW.
SO I THINK WITH THAT PROPOSAL, THEN THE MULTI-FAMILY WOULD BE BE INDIVIDUAL.
SO LIKE APARTMENT COMPLEXES, APARTMENT COMPLEX, ANYTHING OVER A FOURPLEX IS COMMERCIAL.
THE FEES ON THE PROPERTY, WHETHER IT'S, UH, PRIVATE OR PARK COMMERCIAL, I'M SORRY, THE FEES, BUT ACTUALLY THE, UH, SEPARATED FROM RESIDENTIAL VERSUS, UH, COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, NOT BY THE INDIVIDUALS ON THE, THE COMMERCIAL PROPERTY.
SO THE APARTMENTS MIGHT BE MEASURED AS A WHOLE.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE IN OUR SPREADSHEET HOW WE HAD, CUZ I THINK IT WAS MAYBE THE SECOND MEETING, BUT WE PRESENTED NUMBERS ON NUMBER OF PARCELS THAT WERE RESIDENTIAL, NUMBER OF PARTIALS, LIKE PARCELS THAT WERE COMMERCIAL AND ON AND ON.
I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT THE, THE MULTIFAMILY PARCELS THAT ARE ABOVE A FOURPLEX FELL IN THE COMMERCIAL CATEGORY.
AC ACTUALLY THE WAY THE, WE HAVE TO GO BY LAND CLASSIFICATION.
SO THE LAND CLASSIFICATION THAT IS CURRENTLY MAINTAINED BY THE PARISH FOR THE, FOR THE RESIDENTIAL, IT'S MAINTAINED AS LOW DENSITY, MEDIUM DENSITY, HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL.
THOSE ARE THE CLASSIFICATIONS THAT EXIST.
BUT EACH PAR PARCEL HAS THAT CLASSIFICATION.
SO WHAT IS CALLED THE LOW DENSITY AND MEDIUM DENSITY, THEY WERE TREATED AS SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS CALCULATION.
AND WHAT WAS DEEMED AS HIGH DENSITY WAS CALCULATED AS MULTIFAMILY RESIDENTIAL.
SO MULTIFAMILY RESIDENTIAL, IN THIS EXAMPLE THAT YOU'RE ALL TALKING ABOUT, THE LOW DENSITY AND MEDIUM DENSITY, IF YOU HAVE A TIERED IMPERVIOUS AREA CHARGE, THEY WOULD FALL UNDER THAT.
AND THEN THE HIGH DENSITY, UH, RESIDENTIAL WILL FALL UNDER THE INDIVIDUALLY CALCULATED.
AND THERE IS ALSO REASON FOR THAT, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.
BECAUSE WHEN YOU, IF YOU HAVE A CREDIT PROGRAM, EVENTUALLY THE CREDIT PROGRAM WILL BE OPEN NOT ONLY TO NON NON RESIDENTIAL COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL, BUT ALSO TO MULTIFAMILY HIGH DENSITY KIND OF PROPERTIES WHICH MAY BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING ON THEIR PROPERTY FOR ONSITE MANAGEMENT.
SO LET ME ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY ON THIS COMMITTEE TO GO THROUGH THIS EXERCISE, UM, THIS WEEKEND WHEN YOU'RE AT PARTIES OR WITH YOUR FAMILY ON SUNDAY DINNER OR WHEN YOU'RE AT WORK NEXT WEEK, EXPLAIN TO YOUR COWORKERS WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT.
HOW IMPERVIOUS, UM, SURFACES WORK OR HOW A, UM, A A A FLAT FEE, UM, PER PARCEL WOULD WORK.
UM, I THINK YOU'LL FIND THAT IT IS, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE IN THE PUBLIC TO TAKE THIS IN.
UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK WHEN YOU SAY 15, 20 YEARS AGO, PEOPLE STARTED WITH A FLAT FEE.
I MEAN, WE ARE, WE ARE THERE, WE ARE 15 OR 20 YEARS AGO.
I, I HATE TO SAY IT, BUT IT'S TRUE.
AND, UM, AND I, I UNDERSTAND I GET THE DEEP DESIRE TO FORM, UH, TO BUILD A FULLY MATURED PROGRAM OVERNIGHT.
I HAVE GREAT CONCERNS ABOUT OUR INTERNAL CAPACITY TO DO THAT.
AND I DON'T MEAN THAT IN ANY BAD WAY AT ALL, BUT JUST, IT'S
[01:20:01]
REALLY HARD.IT'S REALLY HARD TO GO FROM HERE TO HERE OVERNIGHT.
I'VE DONE THAT AS A STAFF MEMBER BEFORE AND, AND, AND NOT IN A PUBLIC ENTITY.
AND IT'S VERY, VERY DIFFICULT.
UM, I AM ALSO VERY CONCERNED ABOUT BRINGING THE PUBLIC ALONG ON THIS.
WE ARE ENTERING, INTRODUCING AN ENTIRELY NEW CONCEPT, UM, TO THE PUBLIC.
UH, NOT TRYING TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE, BUT WE HAVE MISSTEPS IN THE FALL THAT HAVE CREATED A LOT OF MISTRUST AND MIS MISUNDERSTANDING, UM, AND A LOT OF SUSPICION.
AND WE ARE, WE ARE TRYING TO, UM, I I THINK IT'S TERRIBLY IMPORTANT THAT WE KEEP THINGS SIMPLE, EXPLAINABLE AND DIGESTIBLE BY THE AVERAGE CITIZEN SO THAT THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH, UM, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO.
AND THEY DON'T, UM, FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME, SOME CRAZY, UH, YOU KNOW, VOODOO, UH, CALCULATION THAT'S GOING OUT ON OUT THERE THAT IS, YOU KNOW, WORKING AGAINST THEM IN SOME WAY.
UM, BUT ANYWAY, I'D LIKE YOU TO, I'LL TAKE THAT, THAT TIME TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE AND JUST WATCH HOW THEY PROCESS THIS INFORMATION.
IT'S BEEN A, A FASCINATING AND INFORMING EXERCISE FOR ME, ADAM.
I, I THINK WE CAN REACH AN AGREEMENT THAT SALES TAX AND PROPERTY TAX ARE, ARE OFF THE TABLE.
SO IT BOIL REALLY BOILS DOWN TO DO WE GO IMPERVIOUS OR DO WE GO A FLAT FEE? WHICHEVER WAY WE GO.
AND I'LL AGREE WITH LORI, IS THAT IT NEEDS TO BE SIMPLE SO THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND IT RIGHT AWAY.
IF WE MAKE, IF WE DO THIS THING OR THAT THING AND WE BRING COMPLICATION TO IT, PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE LOST WITH IT.
I HAVE ONE, ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS WHAT ARE THE PROS AND CONS? I, WE'VE HEARD 'EM, BUT CAN, CAN THOSE BE WRITTEN DOWN AND DISTRIBUTED TO PEOPLE SO THAT THEY KNOW IF YOU GO IMPERVIOUS, THESE ARE THE PROS AND PROS AND CONS WITH IT.
IF YOU GO TO FLAT FEE, THESE ARE THE PROS AND CONS.
AND THEN FROM THAT, THEN YOU CAN EASILY MAKE THE DETERMINATION WHICH WAY YOU WANT TO GO.
AND MAKING IT SIMPLE SO THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND IT AND THAT THEY FEEL THAT THEY CAN BUY INTO THE PROGRAM.
JUST TO COMMENT, AND I MADE THIS POINT LAST TIME, IS THAT WE HAVE ONE SHOT, ONE SHOT IN EAST BATON ROUGE PARISH TO MAKE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN THIS, IN STORMWATER AND AND MAINTENANCE.
AND THIS IS ONLY A COMPONENT, PART OF A BIGGER PICTURE OF A BIG OVER A BILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF IMPROVEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED BY H AND TB.
IF WE ATTEMPT TO SHOW THE PUBLIC THIS IS A SOLUTION, IT'S NOT THE SOLUTION, IT'S A COMPONENT, PART OF THE SOLUTION.
SO I THINK THAT BECAUSE IT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE BONDED BECAUSE IT'S GONNA HAVE TO GO TO THE VOTE OF THE PEOPLE, THIS SHOULD BE A COMPONENT, PART OF A MUCH LARGER ATTEMPT BECAUSE THE PUBLIC IS NOT GOING TO, UH, ACCEPT INITIAL FEE AND THEN WE COME BACK AND PROPOSE A BILLION DOLLAR.
THIS NEEDS TO BE PART OF A BIGGER, AND I THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY IF THE MAYOR WOULD, UH, CONSIDER CONTINUING THIS, THAT THIS LITTLE GROUP CAN HELP VET SOME OF THOSE ISSUES AND PUT TOGETHER SOME BIGGER PROGRAM.
I, I'M NOT TRYING TO, UH, DISSUADE YOU, BUT THIS PIECE OF PAPER IS GONNA BE IN THE PAPER TOMORROW AND THE PUBLIC'S GONNA SEE, I'M GONNA HAVE TO BE PAYING, UH, 25 OR A HUNDRED OR 250 AND THEY'RE GONNA BE SEEING THIS.
THIS ISN'T, THIS IS, THIS IS A PITANCE COMPARED TO WHAT WE REALLY HAVE TO DO IN THIS PARISH.
AND I DO NOT WANT TO SEE, UH, US MISS THIS OPPORTUNITY.
AND IF WE MOVE, AND, AND AGAIN, BACK TO YOUR QUESTION, I WANT A CADILLAC, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT I CAN AFFORD A CADILLAC, BUT I DO KNOW THIS.
WE HAVE ONE OPPORTUNITY AND THERE'S GONNA BE ONE VOTE OF THE PEOPLE, AND IT'S GONNA BE GO TO THE VOTE OF THE PEOPLE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE GONNA MAKE THE SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE.
AND WE HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT, UM, MAKING, AND AS LORI TALKED ABOUT AND AS ROWDY TALKED ABOUT STEPS, SO THE PUBLIC KNOWS THAT WE'RE VETTING THIS, WE'RE UNDERSTANDING IT, AND THIS IS A COMPONENT, PART OF A BIGGER PICTURE.
SO I THINK WE HAVE A MOTION, WE HAVE TWO MOTIONS AND WELL, WE HAVE, WE YEAH.
[01:25:01]
BUNCH.I THINK WE HAVE, UM, AND I THINK WE WERE SUPPOSED TO, THERE WAS THREE, UH, THREE.
AND THE FIRST ONE WAS STRICKEN OR AMENDED, I THINK.
UH, I THINK YOU'RE ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO, UM, VOTE ON THE SUBSTITUTE MOTION FIRST.
BUT DO WE WANT TO, UH, DO WE WANT TO PULL THAT SUBSTITUTE MOTION AND THEN GO BACK TO THE AMENDED? UH, OR I GUESS, UH, I THINK WE SHOULD VOTE ON THE SUB.
CORY, YOU WITH ME? WELL, HE WAS THE, UH, HIS WAS A ORIGINAL, HIS WAS AN, IT WAS AN AMENDMENT.
SO YOU GOTTA VOTE ON THE SUBSTITUTE FIRST.
SO WE HAVE TO VOTE ON THE SUBSTITUTE FIRST, UNLESS THE SUBSTITUTE IS GONNA, NO, I THINK THE MOTION WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW IS A FLAT FEE SCALE FOR RESIDENTIAL AND SCALE FOR COMMERCIAL.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT WAS, THAT WAS YOUR MOTION? YEAH, THAT'S A SUBSTITUTE.
SO WE WOULD NEED A VOTE ON THAT.
AND COREY GALLEYS WAS A HYBRID, WHICH IS THE RESIDENTIAL, WHICH IS BASED UPON, UM, TIERS AND THEN THE NON-RESIDENTIAL, WHICH IS BASED UPON IMPERVIOUS SERVICES.
SO WE NEED A VOTE ON THE SO FLAT FEE BASED ON TIERS, TO BE CLEAR.
SO WE NEED A VOTE ON THE SUBSTITUTE MOTION FIRST.
THAT WOULD BE THE SUBSTITUTE MOTION.
YOURS IS THE, YOURS IS THE SUBSTITUTE MOTION.
ACTUALLY, CORY'S AMENDMENT IS THE SUBSTITUTE MOTION.
THIS WAS FIRST ADAM, CAN I MAKE, MAKE A COMMENT REAL QUICK? OKAY.
NOT THAT I WANT TO COMPLICATE THINGS WITH A THIRD MOTION, BUT, UH, AND NOT THAT YOU CAN EVEN DO THAT, RIGHT? CAUSE YOU CAN ONLY HAVE TWO MOTIONS ON THE FLOOR.
SO, UM, I, I'M NOT SURE THAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US HERE A A A FULL PLAN FOR ANY OF THESE MOTIONS.
RIGHT? I MEAN, I, I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU, I LOVE BOTH THESE IDEAS.
I THINK THE, THE HYBRID SYSTEM THAT Y'ALL JUST DREAMT UP RIGHT HERE ON THE FLOOR, REALLY COOL.
JUST TO BE FAIR, IT WASN'T DREAMT UP.
WELL, I, I DIDN'T MEAN THAT AS A PEJORATIVE, BUT
IT'S PLAGIARIZED
UM, BUT I ALSO GET THE, THE ISSUE WITH SIMPLICITY OF A FLAT FEE.
UM, I, I DON'T SEE WHY THERE'S ANY REASON WHY WE CAN'T HAVE STAFF PUT THOSE TWO PLANS TOGETHER ON PAPER FOR US TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE.
LET ME KNOW WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE ON A HOUSE WITH AN ACRE.
LET ME KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE ON A, ON A INDUSTRIAL FACILITY THAT'S 200 ACRES MM-HMM.
I, I REALLY WORRY THAT IF WE'RE, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES WE GET SO CAUGHT UP IN MAKING A DECISION, UH, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, WE DO WHAT I CALL SHOOT FROM THE HIP GOVERNMENT AND IT, AND IT GETS, GETS STICKY, GETS DANGEROUS.
SO THAT, THAT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION IS WE WITHDRAW ALL MOTIONS AND HAVE STAFF FULLY DEVELOP THESE TWO PLANS FOR US TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON.
AND I JUST THINK THE OTHER COMPONENT THAT, THAT HAVE I ALREADY MENTIONED THE, THE ONE MORE MASTER PLAN MM-HMM.
NOT, SO WE CAN, AND THAT THE MASTER PLAN STUFF MIGHT BE A COUPLE OF WORK SESSIONS IN ITSELF, BUT AS, AS MR. FEDDERMAN MENTIONED, CAN WE AT LEAST GET A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE ARE NOT GONNA MOVE FORWARD WITH SALES TAX AND PROPERTY TAX? YES.
LIKE I SAID, IT, IT, IT JUST HELPS.
WE, WE WILL, WE'LL THROW SOME, SOME OPTIONS OUT THERE, BUT AT LEAST TWO OF THEM, TWO OF THESE GO AWAY AND WE DON'T, WE DON'T TALK ABOUT 'EM ANYMORE UNLESS, UNLESS Y'ALL ASK US TO TALK ABOUT IT AGAIN.
UH, I'M NOT TRYING TO, I I'M NOT, AGAIN, I'M NOT A VOTING MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE, BUT IF WE CAN, UM, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO SWAY, BUT IF WE CAN NARROW THINGS DOWN, IT, IT HELPS WITH, UH, THE, THE INFORMATION THAT'S BEING PRESENTED.
AND JUST TO CLARIFY MY POINT EVEN MORE, JUST TO MOVE US AND POSSIBLY JUST ADDRESS POINT NUMBER THREE, UM, THOSE PLANS SHOULD INCLUDE, UM, WHAT CREDITS WOULD, WHAT YOU, WHAT YOU, I IDENTIFY WHAT CREDITS WOULD LOOK LIKE, UM, AS A PART OF THAT.
I JUST WANNA CONFIRM THE ANALYSIS THAT
[01:30:01]
YOU WERE TAKING SO THAT WE CAN DO IT CORRECTLY.UH, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR FOR THE TWO TYPES OF RATE STRUCTURE.
ONE IS THE TIERED IMPERVIOUS AREA BASED RATE STRUCTURE FOR THE RESIDENTIAL WITH INDIVIDUALLY CALCULATED IMPERVIOUS AREA FOR THE NON-RESIDENTIAL.
THAT IS ONE, ONE SCENARIO YOU WANNA KNOW WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE? AND THEN THE SECOND SCENARIO, IS IT A FLAT TIERED CHARGE FOR RESIDENTIAL MM-HMM.
AND I THINK YOU ALSO NEED TO INCLUDE IN THERE PROS AND CONS.
SO PEOPLE UNDERSTAND, YES, IF WE GO THIS DIRECTION, THIS, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS.
IF WE GO THAT DIRECTION, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS.
I'D LIKE TO RECOMMEND THAT, YOU KNOW, AT SOME POINT IN ONE OF THESE MEETINGS IN THE FUTURE, WE BRING IN, UM, AN EXPERT.
I KNOW, I KNOW WE HAVE EXPERTS HERE, BUT SOMEONE THAT'S DONE THIS, YOU KNOW, UM, WE'VE TALKED TO A NUMBER OF PEOPLE AROUND THE COUNTRY AND SOME OF THEM ARE RETIRED.
NOW, WE CAN'T PROBABLY GET JODY CAHOON HERE, CUZ HE'S STILL THE STORMWATER MANAGER IN TALLAHASSEE.
AND I DON'T THINK HE COULD DO THAT.
BUT, UM, HE'S GIVEN US A LOT OF HIS TIME PRO BONO, INCLUDING AT OUR STORMWATER SUMMIT.
UM, BUT WE, WE FOUND ANOTHER GENTLEMAN WHO RAN THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PROGRAM UP IN, I FORGOT WE CHATTED WITH HIM ON THE PHONE.
SO WE COULD GET SOMEONE THAT'S ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, BEST PRACTICES DONE IT AND ASK THEM SOME QUESTIONS AND WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED AND JUST, JUST A THOUGHT WE CAN DO THAT.
SO WITH THAT I TAKE, DO Y'ALL WANT TO, WE DO HAVE WATER AND SOFT DRINKS AND THAT TYPE OF THING.
DOES EVERYBODY WANT TO TAKE A FEW MINUTE BREAK? DO WE WANT TO CONTINUE? WHAT DO WE HAVE LEFT TO DO? SO WE, WELL THE ONLY, THE ONLY OTHER THING WOULD BE DO YOU WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THE, THE CREDITS JUST THE CREDIT PROGRAM? OR DO YOU WANT TO, DO YOU WANT TO THAT TO BE PART OF THE NEXT DISCUSSION? LET'S, LET'S HEAR, WHY DON'T WE HEAR ABOUT IT? LET'S KEEP ROLLING, HUH? OKAY.
DOES ANYBODY WANT WATER OR SOMETHING DELIVERED TO THEIR SEAT HERE? THEY CAN HAVE MINE.
ANYBODY WANT MINE? I DON'T DO, I DON'T DO PLASTIC BOTTLES.
SO WITH THAT, WE, SO WE DID HAVE A, TRYING TO KEEP A CREDIT, UM, PLASTIC BOTTLES.
HEY ADAM, JUST AS A TECHNICAL, WE JUST HAVE MOTIONS ON THE FLOOR, I BELIEVE.
SO I THINK THE APPROPRIATE ACTION WOULD BE TO FIRST, UH, HAVE THOSE FOLKS WITHDRAW THEIR MOTIONS AND THEN CONTINUE TO THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM.
SO WITH THAT, I'M A, I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER TO PAVA ON THE, THE CREDIT PROGRAM.
AND I, I DO WANNA MENTION JUST A LOT OF THE, IN, IN A SIMILAR, UH, SITUATION AS WHAT COUNCILMAN HUDSON MENTIONED EARLIER ABOUT, HEY, THERE'S, WE DON'T HAVE THE EXACT ITEMS HERE.
SAME WITH THE, THESE ARE, IT'S AN INTENT FOR A CERTAIN TOPIC.
OKAY? THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF DETAILS THAT WOULD ULTIMATELY NEED TO BE WORKED OUT IF YOU CHOOSE TO MOVE ON WITH THAT PARTICULAR ONE THAT HAD A CERTAIN INTENT.
SO AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO, THERE'S A LOT OF NUMBERS IN HERE.
BUT ALL OF THAT CAN BE WORKED OUT.
LOOK, WE'RE JUST FOCUSING ON THIS IS, THIS IS THE INTENT OF EACH FIVE OF THESE CREDITS.
OKAY, OUR, UH, OH, WHILE WE ARE WAITING, UH, ONE THING I MIGHT, UH, SUGGEST, IF IT'S HELPFUL TO YOU ALL.
I THINK ALL OF YOU GOT A COPY OF THE BLACK AND REACH, UH, SURVEY, UM, PROBABLY AFTER THE FIRST MEETING.
AND ACTUALLY THERE IS A SECTION CALLED STORMWATER RATE STRUCTURE AND BILLING IN THAT SURVEY, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS WE HAVE ASKED, WHAT KIND OF A STRUCTURE DO YOU HAVE FOR RESIDENTIAL? WHAT KIND OF A RATE STRUCTURE DO YOU HAVE FOR NON-RESIDENTIAL? IF YOU HAVE A TIERED RATE STRUCTURE,
[01:35:01]
HOW MANY TIERS DO YOU HAVE? SO YOU WILL SEE ALL OF THAT IN THIS SECTION CALLED STORMWATER RATE, STRUCTURE AND BILLING.AND YOU MAY WANT TO TAKE A LOOK, IT WOULDN'T TALK ABOUT THE PROS AND CONS, BUT AT LEAST YOU, IF YOU GIVE YOU A SENSE OF, FROM THESE 70, UH, UTILITIES WHERE WE DID GET RESPONSES, UH, THESE ARE ACTUAL UTILITIES THAT HAVE IMPLEMENTED AN IMPERVIOUS AI BASED CHARGE.
SO FROM THESE 70 UTILITIES, WE GOT RESPONSES AT LEAST IT'LL GIVE YOU A SENSE AS TO WHERE THEY'RE ALL LEANING.
FOR EXAMPLE, UH, IN THE CASE OF A RESIDENTIAL RATE STRUCTURE, THE SURVEY SAYS 66% OF THE SURVEY RESPONDENTS HAD A UNIFORM FLAT FEE.
AND THEN ABOUT 22% HAD TIER RATES, ABOUT 12% HAD INDIVIDUALLY CALCULATED.
SO YOU WILL SEE A MIX, BUT AT LEAST YOU HAVE A GOOD SENSE.
AND SIMILARLY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE NON-RESIDENTIAL, 44% HAD INDIVIDUALLY CALCULATED THERE WAS A VERY SMALL NUMBER, WHICH IS LITERALLY 3%, PROBABLY ONE UTILITY OUT OF THE 70 THAT HAD A TIERED NON RESIDENTIAL, UH, RATE.
SO IT, IT HAS JUST HELPS YOU AT LEAST TO GET A SENSE OF THE ENTITIES.
SO I KNOW YOU ALL HAVE KIND OF, WE'VE TOUCHED ON THE CREDIT, SO WE'LL JUST GIVE A QUICK OVERVIEW OF WHAT IS THE CREDIT, JUST TO GET EVERYBODY ON THE SAME PAGE.
UH, BECAUSE SOMETIMES CREDITS AND INCENTIVES ARE USED INTERCHANGEABLY AND THEY'RE NOT REALLY ONE AND THE SAME CREDITS ARE REALLY AN ONGOING REDUCTION THAT A PROPERTY THAT HAS A CHARGE WILL GET AN ONGOING REDUCTION IN THEIR USAGE CHARGE.
AND AGAIN, WHEN WE TALK CREDITS, WE'RE TALKING STRICTLY IN THE CONTEXT OF A USAGE CHARGE, NOT IN THE CONTEXT OF A SALES TAX OR A PROPERTY TAX.
UM, SO TYPICALLY IT IS FOR A REDUCTION IN USAGE CHARGE PRIMARILY BECAUSE OF THEY'VE DONE SOMETHING ON SITE FOR ONSITE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT.
AND THAT'S WHERE THE, THAT'S THE FOUNDATION OF HAVING THE CREDITS.
UM, INCENTIVES ON THE OTHER HAND IS NOT ONGOING REDUCTION INCENTIVES IS ONE TIME EITHER GRANT OR LOAN THAT A UTILITY MAY GIVE TO A CUSTOMER, OR IT COULD ALSO BE A ONE-TIME ASSISTANCE A UTILITY PROVIDES TO A, TO A PROPERTY IN THE FORM OF DESIGN ASSISTANCE, CONSULTING ASSISTANCE FOR DOING SOME GREEN INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE PROPERTY.
SO THAT'S THE FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CREDIT PROGRAM AND AN INCENTIVE PROGRAM.
THE REST OF THE DISCUSSION WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TODAY IS ON THE CREDIT PROGRAM.
UM, AND BOTH OF THEM REALLY GIVE, PROVIDE AN ECONOMIC BENEFITS TO THE PROPERTY.
IT IS REALLY A MECHANISM THAT IS OFFERED TO A PROPERTY TO HAVE SOME CONTROL OVER THEIR CHARGE SO THAT IF THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING ON THEIR PROPERTY, THEN CAN THEY HAVE A REDUCTION IN STRONG WATER CHARGE AND IN SOME MEANINGFUL WAY.
AND ALSO IT KIND OF HELPS ULTIMATELY SUPPORT THE STEWARDSHIP OF STORMWATER MANAGEMENT SO THAT IT ADDRESS NOT ONLY IN THE PUBLIC UTILITY, BUT ALSO FROM THE PRIVATE PROPERTIES.
UM, AND OF COURSE, IT ULTIMATELY THE GOAL IS TO HAVE A ENVIRONMENTAL BE BENEFIT OF A GOOD COMMUNITY.
UM, YOU KNOW, HAVING SOME GOOD MANAGEMENT OF BOTH LITTER AND THE STORMWATER RUNOFF.
SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT A CREDIT PROGRAM BROADLY, THESE ARE THE COMPONENTS OF A CREDIT PROGRAM FRAMEWORK.
ONE IS, FIRST OF ALL, HAVING SOME CLEAR OBJECTIVES AS TO WHY YOU AGREE WITH GIVING CREDITS AND WHAT ARE YOU GONNA BE GIVING CREDITS FOR, WHAT'S THE REASON YOU'RE GIVING CREDIT CREDITS.
WE WILL, UH, KIND OF DISCUSS, TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE, THE OBJECTIVES OF A CREDIT PROGRAM IS NOT THE SAME FOR EVERY COMMUNITY.
EVEN IF IN TWO COMMUNITIES HAVE USER CHARGE PROGRAMS, THE CREDIT PROGRAM MAY LOOK VERY DIFFERENT.
FOR EXAMPLE, IF IT IS A COMMUNITY THAT HAS COMBINED SEWER OVERFLOWS WHERE THE STORM WATER AND THEIR SEWAGE ALL GOES THROUGH THEIR SAME PIPE, AND SO THEY HAVE COMBINED SEWER OVERFLOWS THAT THEY HAVE TO MANAGE, AND IN THAT KIND OF A CONTEXT, A CREDIT PROGRAM MAY BE MORE GEARED TOWARDS, THERE'S A GREATER URGENCY FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY WANT TO REDUCE THE VOLUME OF RUNOFF COMING INTO THE COMBINED SERVER SYSTEMS. WHEREAS AN MS FOUR COMMUNITY LIKE YOURS, THE COM THE GOAL OF THE CREDIT PROGRAM WOULD BE MORE THE, YOU KNOW, TO SOME EXTENT LEADER MANAGEMENT, BUT DEFINITELY REDUCING THE EROSION AND NATURAL CHANNELS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
SO THE OBJECTIVES DIFFER, UH, SOMETIMES DIFFER FROM PLACE TO PLACE, AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE WILL LOOK AT.
THEN THE SECOND COMPONENT OF THE PROGRAM IS REALLY THE TYPES OF CREDITS.
THERE'S, IT'S, THERE'S NO ONE UNIFORM CREDIT PROGRAM IN THE COUNTRY.
THE UTILITIES THAT DO HAVE A CREDIT PROGRAM, IT'S VERY DIFFERENT FROM PLACE TO PLACE.
UM, SO THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF CREDITS AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT A FEW TODAY.
AND THEN WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE CREDITS, IT'S ALSO THEN WHAT KIND OF A TECHNICAL CRITERIA.
CREDITS ARE NOT JUST GIVEN AUTOMATICALLY, IT IS SOMETHING THAT THE CUSTOMERS HAVE TO SEEK.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S NOT, IT IS A VOLUNTARY, WHAT WE CALL A VOLUNTARY OPT-IN PROGRAM.
SO THEY HAVE TO SEEK THE CREDITS AND THEY HAVE TO MEET CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS TO SEEK THE CREDITS.
UH, SO THAT'S WHY THE UTILITY WILL DEFINE TECHNICAL CRITERIA.
AND THEN THERE ARE POLICIES THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE CREDIT PROGRAM.
I'LL TOUCH ON IT A LITTLE BIT.
AND THEN ALSO THE CREDIT PROGRAM IS NOT DONE IN VACUUM
[01:40:01]
WHEN CREDITS ARE GIVEN, WHICH MEANS THERE'S GONNA BE A REDUCTION IN BILLING UNITS BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE CREDITS, WHICH MEANS THERE'S A REDUCTION IN REVENUE.SO THE REVENUE LOSS THAT COMES FROM THE CREDIT PROGRAM FROM THE CREDIT HOLDERS HAS TO BE RECOVERED FROM THE NON-CREDIT HOLDERS BECAUSE JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY DOES ONSITE STRONGWATER MANAGEMENT, IT DOESN'T MEAN IMMEDIATELY THE UTILITIES COST COME DOWN THE SIX AND A HALF MILLION THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.
IT'S NOT LIKE THAT COST IS GONNA COME DOWN.
UM, JUST BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO GIVE CREDIT.
IT JUST MEANS THAT DEPENDING ON WHAT, HOW THE CREDIT PROGRAM IS STRUCTURED, THERE'LL BE SOME REVENUE LOSS THAT HAS TO BE MADE UP FROM OTHER NON-CREDIT HOLDER CUSTOMERS.
THAT'S HOW IT WORKS IN ALL THE PROGRAMS, CREDIT PROGRAMS THAT ARE IN THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.
SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE CREDIT PROGRAM OBJECTIVES, HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF OBJECTIVES THAT UTILITIES, UH, DEFINE.
UM, JOE, YOU COULD GO AHEAD AND CLICK THE, UH, TAKE THE ANIMATION OFF.
YOU, UM, SO ONE IS TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE MANAGEMENT OF THE QUANTITY AND QUALITY OF STORMWATER IN A COMMUNITY.
SECOND, THE CREDIT PROGRAM PROVIDES AN OPPORTUNITY FOR FEE REDUCTION, AS I TALKED ABOUT SPECIFICALLY WHEN PROPERTIES DO SOMETHING ONSITE IN TERMS OF BEST PRACTICES.
THE THIRD ONE, OF COURSE, GOES ALONG WITH IT IS COMPLIANCE, BUT UTILITY HAS COMPLIANCE REQUIREMENTS AND WHATEVER LITTLE PRIVATE PROPERTIES CAN DO THAT ULTIMATELY SUPPORTS THAT COMPLIANCE AS WELL.
AND THEN ONE OF THE OBJECTIVES, OF COURSE, IS IN INCENTIVIZE, YOU KNOW, TO SOME EXTENT NOW THE STORMWATER CHARGE BY ITSELF, THE CREDIT PROGRAM BY ITSELF CANNOT FOSTER A LOT OF, UH, GREEN INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE COMMUNITY, BUT IT JUST PLAYS A, IT'S ANOTHER TOOL IN THE TOOLKIT, SO TO SPEAK.
AND REALLY ALSO GIVING AN OPPORTUNITY SPECIFICALLY FOR PROPERTIES THAT MAY GO ABOVE AND BEYOND THE DEVELOPMENT REQUIREMENTS.
WHEN THERE IS DEVELOPMENT, WHEN THERE IS REDEVELOPMENT, THE PARISH HAS REQUIREMENTS THAT THOSE PROPERTIES HAVE TO MEET.
BUT IF SOME PROPERTIES ARE GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE, THEN THIS IS ONE WAY OF RECOGNIZING WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
SO THESE ARE SOME OF THE EXAMPLES OF OBJECTIVES OF A CREDIT PROGRAM.
SO LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE KINDS OF TYPES OF CREDITS THAT WE TYPICALLY SEE.
UH, NOW SOME OF THEM ARE MORE COMMON, SOME OF THEM ARE VERY RARE.
SO THE FIRST ONE, PEAK DISCHARGE CREDIT IS ONE OF THE MOST COMMON CREDITS THAT YOU WILL SEE IN THE CREDIT PROGRAMS THAT WE HAVE IN THE COUNTRY.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? I'LL TALK TO YOU ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT IN THE NEXT SLIDE.
THE SECOND CREDIT QUALITY CREDIT IS ALSO A VERY COMMON ONE.
THE THIRD CREDIT WE ARE GONNA BE TOUCHING UPON RATIO CREDIT IS VERY RARE.
WE'VE JUST SEEN IT IN A COUPLE OF COMMUNITIES.
UM, S CREDIT NATIONAL POLLUTANT DISCHARGE ELIMINATION SYSTEM CREDIT.
IN YOUR CASE, IT IS THE L P DS CREDIT, LOUISIANA.
SO THAT'S A CREDIT AGAIN WE SEE IN SOME PLACES, BUT NOT, UH, IN, BUT NOT VERY COMMON.
AND THEN EDUCATION CREDIT, AGAIN, WE SEE IN SOME PLACES, BUT NOT VERY COMMON.
SO THE MOST COMMON ONES, AMONG THE FIVE I'VE LISTED THERE ARE THE PEAK DISCHARGE CREDIT AND THE QUALITY CREDIT.
SO SOME OF THE FEATURES OF THE CREDIT, WHEN THIS CREDIT PROGRAM IS DESIGNED, FIRST OF ALL, EACH, DEPENDING ON WHATEVER TYPES OF CREDIT IS ULTIMATELY DEFINED, EACH TYPE OF CREDIT WILL HAVE A CERTAIN LEVEL OF REDUCTION AND SAY, OKAY, IF YOU HAVE A PEAK DISCHARGE AND YOU MEET THE REQUIREMENTS, YOU MAY HAVE X PERCENT OF REDUCTION IN YOUR CHARGE.
SO EACH CREDIT WILL HAVE ITS OWN MAXIMUM, UH, CREDIT, CREDIT IS AVAILABLE FOR THAT PARTICULAR TYPE OF CREDIT.
AND USUALLY ALSO THERE'LL BE AN OVERALL AGGREGATE SO THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY CANNOT, IF, IF THE SUM OF ALL THE CREDITS IS, LET'S SAY JUST FOR EXAMPLE, 60%, THE UTILITY MIGHT STILL SAY NO, WE ARE NOT GIVING 60%.
THE OVERALL AGGREGATE MIGHT BE ONLY 40%.
AGAIN, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THESE PERCENTAGES AND THE MAXIMUMS HAVE TO BE DEFINED CAREFULLY IS THAT THE REVENUE LOSS THAT HAPPENS BECAUSE OF CREDITS HAVE TO BE RECOVERED FROM ALL THE OTHER PROPERTIES.
AND THEN TYPICALLY THE CREDITS ARE GIVEN FOR MEETING, MEETING A TECHNICAL CRITERIA.
AND THE TECHNICAL CRITERIA IS USUALLY CAREFULLY DEFINED BY THE UTILITY AND THEY HAVE TO MEET THOSE REQUIREMENTS BY PROVIDING DOCUMENTATION, TECHNICAL DOCUMENTATION.
AND IF IT ALL ALIGNS, THEN THAT'S WHEN THE ELIGIBILITY WILL BE DECIDED BY THE UTILITY.
UM, AND THEN THE SECOND THING ALSO IS THAT THESE CREDITS ARE NOT PERPETUAL JUST BECAUSE YOU GIVE THE CREDITS, YOU APPLY FOR THE CREDIT PROGRAM AND THEN YOU'RE GIVEN THE CREDITS.
IT DOESN'T MEAN THE CREDITS ARE JUST THERE FOR LIFE OF THE PROPERTY.
IT'S NOT, IT IS USUALLY FOR A DURATION TWO TO FOUR YEARS AFTER WHICH THE PROPERTIES HAVE TO APPLY FOR WHAT IS CALLED A CREDIT RENEWAL.
THAT IS A PROCESS THAT'S, THAT'S TYPICALLY USED ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
SO THESE ARE SOME OF THE FEATURES OF HOW THAT ARE CONSIDERED IN DEFINING A CREDIT PROGRAM.
NOW WE'LL JUST GO INTO EACH ONE A LITTLE BIT.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT A PEAK DISCHARGE CREDIT, IT IS TYPICALLY OFFERED FOR VOLUME CONTROL AND SPECIFICALLY FOR MANAGING THE PEAK RATE OF RUNOFF FROM A PROPERTY.
AND WHAT THIS DOES IS IT HELPS A LITTLE BIT TO MITIGATE LOCALIZED FLOODING.
AGAIN, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, MOST, IF MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY DO THE, DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, THEN OF COURSE IT HELPS WITH THE LOCALIZED FLOODING.
BUT IF THERE ARE JUST A FEW PROPERTIES THAT ARE DOING AND MAJORITY OF THE PROPERTIES ARE NOT, THEN THAT IN ITSELF IS NOT GOING TO DO THAT.
BUT THIS IS JUST ONE WAY OF MITIGATING, UH, AND HELPING WITH THE CAPACITY IN THE CONVEYANCE SYSTEM.
[01:45:01]
TYPICALLY WHAT WE FIND IS, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE'LL BE VERY CLEAR RETENTION AND DETENTION REQUIREMENTS.AND TYPICALLY IF THE PEAK RATE OF DISCHARGE THAT IT COMES FROM A PROPERTY, IF IT IS MANAGED ONSITE IN THE PROPERTY, AND AGAIN, THIS IS WHERE THE POLICY DECISION COMES IN, SOME UTILITIES WILL SAY, IF YOU MANAGE THE REQUIREMENTS TO THE REQUIREMENTS WE HAVE SET FOR DEVELOPMENT AND REDEVELOPMENT, THEN THEY MAY GIVE A SMALL AMOUNT OF CREDIT.
LIKE LET'S SAY FOR EXAMPLE, A 10% CREDIT FROM MEETING THE DEVELOPMENT AND REDEVELOPMENT REQUIREMENTS.
IF YOU GO ABOVE THE, THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS THAT YOU HAVE TO MEET, THEN THEY MAY GIVE A LITTLE HIGHER CREDIT.
SO THEY'LL SAY, IF YOU MEET THE REQUIREMENTS THAT YOU HAVE TO MEET, THEY MAY GIVE YOU A 10% CREDIT.
IF YOU GO ABOVE THAT, WE MAY GIVE YOU A 15% CREDIT.
WE'VE ALSO SEEN SOME COMMUNITIES WHERE WE HAVE ESTABLISHED THIS PROGRAM WHERE THEY CLEARLY SAID, WE ARE NOT GONNA GIVE ANY CREDITS FOR JUST MEETING DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS BECAUSE THAT IS SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO MEET ANYWAY TO BUILD IN OUR COMMUNITY.
SO FOR THAT WE ARE NOT GONNA GIVE YOU, BUT IF YOU GO ABOVE AND BEYOND, THEN THEY WILL GIVE YOU CREDITS.
SO THAT'S HOW THOSE KIND OF CREDITS ACTUALLY WORK ALIGNED WITH WHAT THE EXISTING DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS ARE.
MY UNDERSTANDING HERE IN THE PARISH IS THAT RIGHT NOW THE DEVELOPMENT FOR DEVELOPMENT AND REDEVELOPMENT, THE PROPERTY HAS TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THE POST DEVELOPMENT RUNOFF SHOULD BE AT THE SAME RATE, SHOULD NOT EXCEED THE PRE-DEVELOPMENT RUNOFF.
THAT'S, THAT'S THE REQUIREMENT I BELIEVE IN THE PARISH RIGHT NOW.
SO THIS WILL BE A DECISION AS TO WHETHER YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE CREDITS FOR, FOR THOSE PROPERTIES THAT MEET THAT REQUIREMENT OR SHOULD THEY ACTUALLY GO ABOVE AND BEYOND TO GET THE CREDIT.
SO THOSE ARE SOME THINGS TO BE WORKED OUT, BUT THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE.
THE NEXT ONE IS REALLY THE QUALITY CREDIT.
AGAIN, OBVIOUSLY BEING THE WORD QUALITY, IT IS REALLY FOR MANAGING POLLUTANTS THAT ARE IN THE RUNOFF.
AND TYPICALLY THE TECHNICAL CRI CRITERIA THAT WE SEE FOR QUALITY CREDITS IS THAT IF TYPICALLY FOR, AGAIN, FOR DEVELOPMENT REDEVELOPMENT, THERE'S A CERTAIN LEVEL OF TSS REMOVAL, TOTAL SUSPENDED SOLIDS THAT THE PROPERTIES HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE FOR REMOVAL.
I BELIEVE IN THE PARISH IT IS 80% REMOVAL OF TOTAL SUSPENDED SOLIDS AND UTILITIES WILL TYPICALLY SAY, OKAY, IF YOU MEET THE 80% TSS REMOVAL, YOU MAY GET A SMALLER AMOUNT OF CREDIT.
BUT IF YOU GO ABOVE AND BEYOND AND DEMONSTRATE THAT, THEN YOU MAY HAVE A LITTLE HIGHER LEVEL OF CREDIT.
SO THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF QUALITY CREDIT.
TYPICALLY, UM, THEY'LL HAVE RAIN GARDENS, BIOS FAILS, OTHER NON-STRUCTURAL PRACTICES ON THE PROPERTY.
THE THIRD TYPE OF CREDIT, THIS IS ONE OF THE VERY RARE CREDITS THAT WE DON'T SEE VERY OFTEN.
THIS IS CALLED A RATIO CREDIT.
UM, AND WHEN WE THOUGHT OF THE RATIO CREDIT HERE IN THIS CONTEXT, I JUST WANNA EXPLAIN THAT WE TYPICALLY CONSIDERED IT IN THE CONTEXT OF AGRICULTURAL PROPERTIES WHERE THEY MAY HAVE A SITUATION WHERE THE TOTAL RUNOFF COMING FROM THE IMPROVED AREAS OF THE AGRICULTURAL PROPERTY, THE IMPERVIOUS AREA IMPROVEMENT THAT AN AGRICULTURAL PROPERTY MAY HAVE.
THERE IS A POTENTIAL THAT THE RUNOFF COMING FROM THAT IMPROVEMENT PROBABLY STAYS WITHIN THE PROPERTY ITSELF JUST BECAUSE THE AMOUNT OF AGRICULTURAL LAND IS SO VAST AND THE IMPERVIOUS AREA PROBABLY IS REALLY SMALL THAT THE RUNOFF COULD POTENTIALLY STAY WITHIN THE PROPERTY ITSELF.
SO THAT WAS WHAT WAS ENVISIONED WHEN WE THOUGHT OF A RATIO CREDIT.
AND IF THAT IS A SITUATION WITH THE PROPERTY, THEN WE COULD GIVE CON CONSIDER SOME CREDITS.
FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE RATIO OF THE IMPERVIOUS AREA TO THE TOTAL IMPERVIOUS AREA IS 25% OR LESS, THEN THEY COULD GET ONE LEVEL OF CREDIT.
AND IF THE RATIO OF IMPERVIOUS TO IMPERVIOUS AREA IS WITHIN 25 TO 35%, THEN WE CAN GET A LOWER LEVEL OF CREDIT.
SO AGAIN, THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE OF HOW WE'VE ENVISIONED THIS RATIO CREDIT, BUT IT WAS REALLY STRICTLY ENVISIONED FOR THIS POTENTIAL AGRICULTURAL PROPERTIES THAT MAY HAVE THIS VERY UNIQUE SITUATION IN THAT PROPERTY.
OKAY, THIS ONE IS REALLY THE, UH, LOUISIANA, UM, POLLUTANT DISCHARGE ELIMINATION SYSTEM CREDIT.
AGAIN, SOME MIN, SOME UTILITIES DO GIVE THIS CREDIT FOR MEETING, UH, REQUIREMENTS AND SOME DON'T.
FOR EXAMPLE, THERE ARE PROPERTIES, ESPECIALLY NON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES THAT MAY HAVE DIRECT, UH, PERMIT THAT THEY HAVE.
THEY MAY HAVE WHAT IS CALLED A GENERAL STORMWATER PERMIT FOR DISCHARGE.
THEY MAY HAVE WHAT IS CALLED AN INDIVIDUAL PERMIT FOR DISCHARGE.
AND AGAIN, THAT IS NOT BECAUSE OF STORMWATER CHARGE, THEY HAVE IT ANY ANYWHERE TO EXIST AS A NON-RESIDENTIAL BUSINESS IN THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE THAT'S ISSUED BY THE DEQ.
AND THAT IS ALSO ENFORCED UPON BY THE DEQ.
BUT THIS CREDIT IS REALLY MORE A COURTESY RECOGNITION THAT IF THEY'RE STAYING IN COMPLIANCE WITH THEIR PERMIT REQUIREMENTS, THEN YOU KNOW, THEN THEY CAN GET A SMALL AMOUNT OF CREDIT.
AGAIN, IT'S JUST TO FOSTER THAT SENSE OF COMPLIANCE.
SO THAT'S WHY THIS IS GIVEN AND THAT IS WHY THIS IS, AGAIN, NOT A VERY COMMON CREDIT.
SOME UTILITIES GIVEN, SOME DON'T.
AND THEN THE LAST ONE EXAMPLE WE WANTED TO GIVE IS THE EDUCATION CREDIT.
THIS AGAIN IS, WHILE IT IS NOT VERY PREVALENT, THERE ARE COMMUNITIES THAT DO GIVE EDUCATION CREDITS AND IT COMES IN DIFFERENT SHAPES AND FORMS. WE HAVE, WE SEE SOMETIMES, UH, LIKE KINGS COUNTY AND WASHINGTON, UM,
[01:50:01]
YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY MAY GIVE A EDUCATION CREDIT SOMETIMES ONLY FOR K THROUGH 12 SCHOOLS.I THINK IT WAS PRINCE GEORGE'S COUNTY.
I'D LOVE TO CHECK AND LET YOU KNOW.
THEY, THEY GIVE AN EDUCATION CREDIT BUT ONLY FOR K THROUGH 12 SCHOOLS.
AND THEY HAVE VERY SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS THAT IF 25% OF YOUR, UH, SCHOOL DISTRICT IS GIVEN AT LEAST, UH, YOU KNOW, ONE SESSION IN STORMWATER CURRICULUM, THEN THEY WILL GIVE YOU THIS KIND OF CREDIT.
SO THEY'LL BE VERY, VERY PRESCRIPTIVE AND DEFINED THAT THEY HAVE TO MEET.
SO IT COULD BE FOR PUBLIC PRIVATE SCHOOLS, K THROUGH 12, IT COULD BE FOR PUBLIC FACILITIES, LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF THERE ARE FACILITIES LIKE ZOO OR OTHERS THAT ARE WILLING TO DEMONSTRATE SOME STORM WATER EDUCATION IN THE COMMUNITY, YOU COULD CONSIDER THAT.
AND CERTAINLY INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER LEARNING LIKE COMMUNITY COLLEGES, UNIVERSITIES, IF THEY HAVE REALLY DEMONSTRATION PROGRAMS FOR EDUCATING PROP, UH, PROPERTIES ON HOW TO DO BEST LANDSCAPING, HOW TO DO DMPS, UH, AND EVEN EDUCATION ON STORMWATER, THEN INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER LEARNING CAN ALSO QUALIFY FOR EDUCATION CREDIT.
SO THE WHOLE IDEA IS THAT WHEN THESE ENTITIES DO EDUCATION ON STORMWATER, IT THEN PRODUCES TO SOME EXTENT THE BURDEN ON THE UTILITY TO DO THAT EDUCATION, RIGHT? SO THEY'RE KIND OF AUGMENTING WHAT THE UTILITY HAS TO DO FOR PUBLIC EDUCATION.
SO IN RECOGNITION THEY CAN GET SOME CREDIT FOR THAT.
SO THESE ARE ALL THE TYPES OF CREDITS THAT KIND OF BE ENVISIONED THAT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE HERE FOR THE PARISH.
SHOULD YOU HAVE A USER CHARGE PROGRAM, THEN THIS CAN BE ALIGNED IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE USER CHARGE PROGRAM.
SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE HAVE.
AND THEN SOME OF THE POLICIES THAT GOVERN USER CHARGE PROGRAM, IN ADDITION TO THE TYPES OF CREDIT, TYPICALLY SOME OF THE POLICIES ARE WHAT IS THE DURATION OF THE CREDIT? WE SEE A SPECTRUM.
TYPICALLY IT COULD BE TWO YEARS, SOME UTILITIES HAVE THREE YEARS, SOME HAVE FOUR AT THAT TIME, THESE PROPERTIES HAVE TO COME UP FOR A CREDIT RENEWAL, THERE'LL BE A FORMAL CREDIT RENEWAL PROCESS.
THE CREDIT APPLICATION ITSELF, EVEN THE INITIAL APPLICATION IS A VERY FORMAL PROCESS WHERE THEY HAVE TO FILL OUT AN APPLICATION, THEY HAVE TO MEET ALL THE TECHNICAL CRITERIA, THEY HAVE TO SAY WHICH TYPE OF CREDIT THEY'RE APPLYING FOR AND SUBMIT THE ACCOUNT, UH, UM, RESPECTIVE DOCUMENTATION FOR THAT.
AND TYPICALLY FOR A INITIAL APPLICATION, THERE WILL ALSO BE A SMALL APPLICATION FEE.
THE APPLICATION FEE IS NOT ONEROUS, BUT IT IS JUST THAT TO RECOVER AT LEAST SOME, SOME COST OF THIS BECAUSE UTILITY HAS TO DO A TECHNICAL REVIEW, UTILITY HAS TO DO A SITE VISIT.
SO THESE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE TYPICALLY, UM, CONSIDERED IN A POLICY.
AND ONE OF THE KEY POLICIES ALSO AS PART OF THE PROGRAM IS DO YOU WANT TO START WITH A CREDIT PROGRAM FOR BOTH RESIDENTIAL AND NON RESIDENTIAL? MAJORITY OF THE MUNICIPALITIES START WITH JUST THE NON RESIDENTIAL TO BEGIN WITH BECAUSE OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN THAT IT POSES ON ADMINISTERING A CREDIT PROGRAM.
SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE POLICIES THAT HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED AS WELL.
AND THEN THE TIME OF ENROLLMENT.
WHEN DO, DO YOU KEEP THE CREDIT PROGRAM OPEN ALL THROUGH THE YEAR OR DO YOU KEEP IT ONLY A CERTAIN POINT? FOR EXAMPLE, IN MINNEAPOLIS, THE CREDIT PROGRAM THAT WE DESIGNED IS ONLY OPEN DURING A CERTAIN TIME BETWEEN MAY AND JULY OR SO, THEY WILL ACCEPT APPLICATIONS BECAUSE THEY CAN DO SITE VISIT AFTER NOVEMBER.
SO THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE, SO THEY TAKE, UH, APPLICATIONS FOR NEW APPLICATIONS ONLY DURING A CERTAIN TIME, WHEREAS IN OTHER PLACES, MORE IN THE EASTERN SEABOARD WHERE SNOW IS NOT A BIG ISSUE, THEY WOULD TAKE APPLICATIONS ALL THROUGH THE YEAR.
SO THESE ARE ALL POLICIES THAT WILL BE WELL DEFINED AND TYPICALLY THERE'LL BE A CREDITS PROGRAM MANUAL THAT OUTLINES EVERYTHING THAT IS POSTED ON THE WEBSITE THAT IS POSTED TO THE PUBLIC SO THAT IT CAN BE CONSISTENTLY APPLIED THROUGHOUT THE LIFE OF THE PROGRAM.
INTERESTED IN THE L P DS CREDIT.
UM, WHAT ABOUT A SITUATION BECAUSE YOU SAY FULL COMPLIANCE, WHAT ABOUT A SITUATION WHERE YOU ARE OUT OF COMPLIANCE WITH SAY, A DAILY NUMBER, WHICH IN COMPLIANCE WITH A WEEKLY OR, OR, OR MONTHLY NUMBER OR YOU SAID TO BE IN FULL COMPLIANCE? YEAH, AGAIN, FROM A CREDIT PERSPECTIVE, UM, I, I CAN'T COMMENT ON THE REGULAR OVERALL COMPLIANCE, BUT GENERALLY IN THE CREDIT PROGRAM WHERE A CREDIT PROGRAM IS THERE, THE TIME OF SUBMISSION, WHEN THEY HAVE SUBMIT AN INITIAL APPLICATION, THEY HAVE TO SHOW THAT THEY HAVE BEEN IN COMPLIANCE WITH THEIR L P D L P D EQ REQUIREMENTS.
SO THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN VIOLATION.
I MEAN, AGAIN, THE CREDIT MANUAL WILL SAY THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN COMPLIANCE THE LAST THREE YEARS.
IT'LL HAVE A TIMEFRAME AND SO THAT THEN THEY'LL GET THE CREDIT.
AND SIMILARLY, ONCE THE CREDIT PROGRAM IS ROLLED IN, THE UTILITY RETAINS THE RIGHT TO AUDIT ANY PROPERTY BECAUSE THEY CAN WALK INTO A PROPERTY AND WHAT THEY SAID WAS FUNCTIONING BMP MAY NOT BE FUNCTIONING, THEN THE CREDITS MAY BE REVOKED.
SO THAT AUDIT PROCESS IS ALSO THERE.
SO THE IDEA IS THAT THESE ARE SOMETHING THAT WILL BE DEFINED IN THE MANUAL.
YEAH, THAT I JUST, LIKE, SHE SAID THAT THAT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE A POLICY DECISION THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO MAKE.
[01:55:01]
EXACT CONVERSATION ON FRIDAY BE BEFORE WE SENT THE EMAIL OUT, AND IT'S LIKE A, AS YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE SOMETHING VERY, VERY MINOR ABSOLUTELY.TO WHERE YOU ARE TECHNICALLY NOT IN COMPLIANCE.
THAT, THAT, THAT'S MY CONCERN.
BUT THE, BUT THEY'RE REALLY MEETING ALL THE INTENTS AND THEY'RE BEING A GOOD CITIZEN MM-HMM.
SO WE WOULDN'T WANT TO DING THEM FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO WE WOULD HAVE TO, WE WOULD'VE TO GIVE THAT A LOT OF THOUGHT SO THAT SOMETHING, UH, SOME, SOME VERY MINOR ISSUE ISN'T, UM, JEOPARDIZING THERE OR, OR THAT WOULD AT LEAST BE THE, THE THOUGHT PROCESS.
YOU MIGHT HAVE ONE EXCURSION AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT IN COMPLIANCE, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE MEETING A MONTHLY NUMBER, MEETING A WEEKLY NUMBER.
SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT DOESN'T KICK YOU OUT OF THE POSSIBILITY OF GETTING THE CREDIT.
I HAD A QUESTION, A GENERALLY MATURE PROGRAM OF CREDITS AS A PERCENTAGE OF THE TOTAL DOLLARS THAT THE PROGRAM'S GENERATING.
WHAT IS THAT NUMBER? THAT'S A, IN OTHER WORDS, I PRESUME YOU'D, IF IT'S 25%, THEN YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET THAT OTHER 25% BACKUP.
IS THAT, AM I MISSING SOMETHING? NO, CORRECT.
I THINK WHAT YOU'RE ASKING IS IF YOU TAKE A TOTAL PROGRAM, TOTAL REVENUE REQUIREMENT, WHAT, WHAT IS THE DOLLAR AMOUNT THAT KIND OF GOES AWAY IN THE FORM OF CREDIT? TYPICALLY WHAT WE HAVE SEEN FROM CUSTOM, AGAIN, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S PUBLICLY AVAILABLE FROM THE CUSTOM BENCHMARKING THAT WE HAVE DONE ON CREDIT PROGRAM IS LESS THAN, LESS THAN REALLY 5%.
IN MANY PLACES IT'S ACTUALLY LESS THAN, IT'S ABOUT A PERCENTAGE OF THE TOTAL REVENUE REQUIREMENT BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN ACCIDENT BECAUSE THEY KEEP THE CREDIT PROGRAM VERY TIGHT BECAUSE THEY KNOW A REVENUE LOSS HAS TO COME FROM OTHER NON-CREDIT HOLDERS.
AND THEY ALSO KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF PROPERTIES LIKE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES, THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING.
THEY, WHEN THEY, IF THEY REALLY HAVE A SMALL PROPERTY TO BEGIN WITH, THEY CAN BE EXPECTED TO DO SOMETHING ON SITE.
FROM A STORMWATER MANAGEMENT STANDPOINT, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE, SO BECAUSE OF THAT, AND ALSO THERE'S THE RECOGNITION, DOING SOMETHING ON SITE FOR STORMWATER MANAGEMENT IS ALSO CAPITAL INTENSIVE.
SO SOMETIMES THE COST OF WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO DEMONSTRATE THE CREDIT MAY BE ACTUALLY MORE THAN YOUR FIVE YEARS WORTH OF ANNUAL CHARGE.
SO GIVEN ALL THESE CONSIDERATIONS, MANY OF THE CREDIT PROGRAMS ARE GENERALLY VERY TIGHTLY CRAFTED.
AND BECAUSE OF THAT, THE REVENUE LOSS THAT COMES FROM CREDITS IS, IS CAREFULLY MANAGED.
AND SO TYPICALLY WE'VE NOT SEEN ANYTHING MORE THAN 5% MAXIMUM.
AND IS THERE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN, UM, NEWLY OR PROPERTIES THAT ARE GETTING READY TO COME IN PROGRESS BECAUSE OF WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH, UM, WITH, WITH RACHEL'S WORK? I'M TALKING ABOUT YOU RACHEL, UH, ON CONVEYANCE ZONES AND THE REST OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING, THOSE PEOPLE ARE HAVING ADDITIONAL IMPOSITION OF RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE BEFORE.
AND IT SEEMS LIKE, UM, I'M JUST NOT SURE ABOUT PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN OPERATIONAL FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME VERSUS PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA START CONSTRUCTION AND DO A PROJECT AND DEAL WITH, UH, RACHEL LAMBERT.
SO, SO AGAIN, YEAH, THERE ARE PROPERTIES THAT WILL BE GRANDFATHERED IN AND, AND AGAIN, I KNOW YOU'VE ALL TALKED ABOUT GREAT STRUCTURE AND THE SIMPLICITY WHEN IT COMES TO CREDIT PROGRAM, THAT'S REALLY WHAT UTILITIES STRIVE FOR.
THEY TRY NOT FOR A TECHNICAL PERFECTION BECAUSE IT'S VERY COMPLEX TO ADMINISTER A VERY COMPLEX CREDIT PROGRAM.
THIS, AS YOU ALL TALKED ABOUT, IS ALREADY COMPLEX ENOUGH FROM A RATE STRUCTURE STANDPOINT AND DATA MANAGEMENT.
AND SO THEY, THE CREDIT PROGRAM, TYPICALLY WHEN THEY DEFINE IT, THEY WILL HAVE A CREDIT PROGRAM.
AND IF IT'S NOT LIKE THE CREDIT PROGRAM KEEPS ON CHANGING FOR PROPERTIES THAT ARE GRANDFATHERED, WE HAD, THAT CAME UNDER OLD RULES AND PROPERTIES.
BUT UNDER NEW RULES, THEY TRY TO GO BY WHAT ARE THE CURRENT DEVELOPMENT AND REDEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS.
NOW, NOW WHEN THE PROGRAM IS ESTABLISHED, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO GO BACK AND HISTORICALLY SAY WHAT HAPPENED? AND THEY RUN, THEY ALLOWED THE PROGRAM TO RUN FOR A FEW YEARS AND LIKE, LIKE I MENTIONED, THE UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE COUNTY IN WASHINGTON, PIERCE COUNTY IN WASHINGTON, AFTER SEVERAL YEARS OF CREDIT PROGRAM, THEY DID, THEY DID DO A COMPLETE REVIEW OF THE CREDIT PROGRAM AND THEY'VE COMPLETELY REVAMPED THE CREDIT PROGRAM BECAUSE THEY REALIZED THAT THEY WERE GIVING WAY TOO MUCH OF CREDIT.
CAUSE AT THAT TIME WHEN THEY STARTED, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THAT KIND OF A KNOWLEDGE BASE AND THEY REALIZED THEY HAD GIVEN WAY TOO MUCH.
THEY WERE GIVING 80% CREDITS FOR SOME PROPERTIES AND THEY'VE SCALED IT ALL BACK NOW AND THEY'VE, NOW THEY'VE REVAMPED THE PROGRAM AND NOW THE MAXIMUM CREDIT, THEY GIVE US 30%.
BUT THEY ALSO, UH, DID AS SOME, WHAT THEY SAID WAS PROP, THEY GAVE TIME UNTIL 2027, I BELIEVE, FOR PROPERTIES TO,
[02:00:01]
FROM THE OLD CREDIT PROGRAM TO COME INTO THE NEW CREDIT PROGRAM.THEY NOT ONLY REDUCE THE CREDITS, BUT THEY ALSO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS MOST STRINGENT.
SO THEY SAID PROPERTIES THAT ARE CURRENTLY HOLDING CREDITS BY 2027, IF YOU MEET THE NEW REQUIREMENTS, THEN YOUR CREDITS WILL CONTINUE.
BUT IF YOU FAIL TO MEET BY 2027, THEN THE CREDITS WILL DROP OFF.
SO THEY GIVE THEM ABOUT 10 YEARS.
AND ONE LAST STAFFING, I PR IT SOUNDS PRETTY COMPLICATED TO ME.
IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A, A REQUIREMENT THAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO STAFF UP GREATER THAN MAYBE WE'VE ANTICIPATED HERE, OR, UM, GENERALLY FROM WHAT WE HAVE SEEN, UM, AGAIN, THE CREDIT PROGRAM IS KEPT SIMPLE WITH JUST TWO OR THREE TYPES OF CREDITS WITH CLEAR DOCUMENTATION.
THEY USUALLY TRY TO MANAGE IT WITH AN EXISTING STAFF.
THEY DON'T HIRE JUST FOR THIS AND COMPLICATED.
UM, SO THEY MAY, THEY MAY MANAGE IT, BUT AGAIN, BECAUSE THIS IS TECHNICAL, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT THE BILLING DEPARTMENT CAN DO.
THIS HAS TO BE DONE BY THE DEPARTMENT THAT MANAGES THE STORMWATER PROGRAM.
SO THEY USUALLY TRY TO MANAGE IT INTERNALLY, AND IF THE PROGRAM GROWS, THEN THEY KIND OF SCALE UP A LITTLE BIT.
SO WE HAD A BIG, FOR EXAMPLE, WILMINGTON, DELAWARE IN 2007, THEY STARTED THE STORMWATER USER CHARGE PROGRAM AND THE CREDIT PROGRAM ALL AT THE SAME TIME FOR THE FIRST ALMOST FOUR, FIVE YEARS.
THEY JUST MANAGED IT WITH THE EXISTING STAFF.
AND THEN AT THAT POINT THEY, THEY, THE NUMBER OF APPLICA CREDIT HOLDERS BECAME 50 50 CREDIT HOLDERS.
AND AT THAT TIME, THEY ACTUALLY BROUGHT IN A STORMWATER COORDINATOR, NOT ONLY JUST FOR THE CREDIT PROGRAM, BUT BUT TO CROSS-FUNCTIONAL WITH OTHER TASKS AS WELL.
AND WHAT YOU'VE SEEN, WOULD IT BE YOUR RECOMMENDATION TO START THE PROGRAM WITH OR WITHOUT CREDITS BASED UPON WHAT YOU'VE SEEN WITH ISSUES? OUR RECOMMENDATION BASED ON OUR EXPERIENCE IS TO START A STORMWATER USER FEE PROGRAM.
IF IT IS GOING TO BE BASED ON AN IMPERVIOUS AREA, THEN WE TYPICALLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU START THE PROGRAM WITH THE CREDIT PROGRAM.
UM, YOU WILL SEE IN THIS SURVEY THAT THERE ARE COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE STRONGWATER USER FEE PROGRAMS, BUT NO CREDIT PROGRAMS. BUT WHEN YOU'RE STARTING NOW INTO 2026, IT IT'S LOGICAL TO HAVE AN EMPLOYEE CITY CHARGE WITH THE CREDIT PROGRAM.
SO THAT IF THERE ARE GENUINELY PROPERTIES THAT GO ABOVE AND BEYOND THE REQUIREMENTS THAT WE MAY DEFINE FOR THE CREDIT PROGRAM, THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEEK SOME CREDITS.
I WAS READING AND I WAS DISTRACTED.
DID YOU SUGGEST THAT GRANDFATHERING SUNSETS AT SOME POINT? NO, WHAT I WAS SAYING WAS THAT TYPICALLY WHEN A CREDIT PROGRAM IS ESTABLISHED, IT IS ESTABLISHED WITH THE REGULATIONS THAT ARE IN PLACE AT THAT TIME.
SO THE TECHNICAL CRITERIA IS USUALLY DESIGNED FOR WHAT IS IN WHAT IS REQUIRED NOW.
AND THAT'S WHERE THE POLICY DECISIONS WILL BE MADE.
EITHER CREDITS WILL BE, SOME SMALL CREDIT WILL BE GIVEN FOR MEETING THE EXISTING DEVELOPMENT AND REDEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS, AND THEN A LITTLE HIGHER CREDIT COULD BE GIVEN FOR EXCEEDING THOSE REGULATIONS.
BUT ONCE YOU'RE GRANDFATHERED, YOU KEEP THAT STATUS GOING FORWARD.
AGAIN, AS LONG AS THE, AGAIN, THE PROGRAM ASSET, AS IT, AGAIN, THESE PROGRAMS ARE NOT SET IN STONE.
IT'LL BE THERE FOR A LONG TIME BECAUSE THIS CREDIT PROGRAM IS ONE THING THAT YOU JUST WON'T KEEP CONSTANTLY CHANGING BECAUSE IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR PROPERTIES TO GET ONTO THE PROGRAM WITH CERTAIN, UH, REQUIREMENTS.
AND THEN SUDDENLY THE REQUIREMENTS SEEN.
SO THE CREDIT PROGRAM, USUALLY THEY WON'T CHANGE IT FOR AT LEAST 10, 15 YEARS BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO GET A GOOD HISTORY OF WHAT'S HAPPENING, WHO'S APPLYING FOR CREDITS.
AND THEN AT THAT TIME, IF THERE'S REALLY A CRITICAL CIRCUMSTANCE AS TO WHY YOU WANT TO REVISE THE CREDIT PROGRAM OR IF THE STATE REGULATIONS ITSELF CHANGE SOMETIMES, THEN YOU DO HAVE TO LOOK AT YOUR CREDIT PROGRAM BA BASED ON, UH, THE GENERAL CONSENSUS OF WHAT WE WERE DISCUSSING EARLIER ABOUT THE METHOD OF FUNDING OF THE, OF THE GRADUATED FEES FOR RESIDENTIAL, FOR COMMERCIAL, NOT ONLY THE COMMERCIAL BEING BASED ON THE, THE, UH, IMPERVIOUS SERVICES, THEN ONLY THE COMMERCIAL WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR CREDIT.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS VERY TRUE.
THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.
SO TYPICALLY, UH, YOU DON'T SEE CREDITS WHEN IT IS JUST A FLAT CHARGE.
IF THERE IS A FLAT CHARGE FOR RESIDENTIAL AND A FLAT CHARGE FOR NON RESIDENTIAL, TYPICALLY CREDITS ARE NOT GIVEN.
THE REASON FOR THAT IS THERE IS ALREADY AN EQUITY ISSUE THERE BECAUSE PROPERTIES WITH SIGNIFICANT IMPERVIOUS AREA ARE PAYING THE SAME LEVEL AS A PROPERTY THAT IS A SMALL PROPERTY.
TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THE SIMPLICITY OF IT.
AND THAT IS FINE TO ESTABLISH ONLY A FLAG FEE BECAUSE IF THAT'S A WAY IT IS MOST ADMINISTRATIVELY EASY TO DO, THEN IT'S TOTALLY FINE TO TO DO THAT.
BUT THEN, THEN YOU CAN'T REALLY GIVE CREDITS.
SECOND THING, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT TIER, IN THE CASE OF A TIERED NON RESIDENTIAL OR EVEN A TIERED RESIDENTIAL, ONE OF THE REASONS THAT CREDITS ARE TYPICALLY NOT GIVEN WHEN YOU TAKE PROPERTIES AND PUT THEM INTO TIERS ALREADY, AGAIN, THERE'S A CHALLENGE THAT THE PEOPLE AT THE LOW END OF THE TIER ARE PAYING MORE THAN THEIR FAIR SHARE.
AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE AT THE HIGH END OF THE TIER ARE PAYING LESS
[02:05:01]
THAN THEIR FAIR SHARE.AND BECAUSE OF THAT, AGAIN, CAUSE OF THAT REASON, AGAIN, ON TOP OF IT, IT, IT'S KIND OF NOT MEANINGFUL TO HAVE CREDIT BECAUSE INNOCENCE, THEY'RE ALREADY GETTING A CREDIT BY JUST BEING IN A TIER.
SO THESE ARE THE REASONS WHY TYPICALLY CREDIT PROGRAM IS NOT GIVEN.
IF IT IS A TIERED NON RESIDENTIAL PROGRAM, CREDITS ARE GIVEN.
IF IT IS INDIVIDUALLY CALCULATED PROGRAM, THEN THE CREDITS BEGIN TO REALLY MAKE SOME SENSE.
AND, AND LOOKING AT THE PROGRAM AND WHAT YOU PRESENTED, UH, I SENSED TO, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT WERE CREDITS GIVEN OR CREDIT PROGRAMS WERE PUT IN PLACE BECAUSE A GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY WANTED TO IMPROVES, IMPROVE THEIR, UH, UH, MS FOUR, UH, PROGRAM SIGNIFICANTLY.
AND THEREFORE, ONE OF THE WAYS TO DO THAT WAS WAS PUTTING IN A CREDIT PROGRAM.
BECAUSE IF, IF, UH, IF THEY WERE ALREADY IN COMPLIANCE, WHY WOULD THERE BE A NEED TO PUT, TO PUT IN A CREDIT PROGRAM? SO I THINK THERE'S ONE FUNDAMENTAL REASON.
IT'S NOT NECESSARILY WHETHER SOMEBODY IS IN COMPLIANCE OR NOT.
IT'S REALLY THE ISSUE OF A, OF CHARGE AND IT'S NOT ATTACHED.
SO IF SOMETHING IS A USER CHARGE, THE TERM USER HAS A MEANING THAT IF I'M USING, IN THIS CASE, I'M CONTRIBUTING A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF RUNOFF, THEN I'M PAYING FOR THE RUNOFF THAT I'M CONTRIBUTING BECAUSE I'M PUTTING A CERTAIN LEVEL OF DEMAND ON THE SYSTEM.
BUT LET'S SAY I'M REALLY GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND AND MANAGING STORM WATER, THEN I'M PLACING A LITTLE LESS DEMAND ON THE SYSTEM.
IN A SENSE I'M USING THE SYSTEM A LITTLE LESS.
AND THEREFORE, IN RECOGNITION OF THAT, THERE IS A SLIGHT REDUCTION IN CHARGE.
SO IT'S REALLY SIMILAR TO HOW IN THE CASE OF WATER, IF YOU, IF YOU'RE DOING CONSERVATION, THEN YOU'RE USING LESS WATER AND THEREFORE YOU'RE PAYING A LESS, LESS WATER CHARGE BECAUSE YOUR METER ACTUALLY RECORDS IT.
BUT HOW DO YOU DO THAT IN STORM WATER WHEN YOU CAN PUT A METER IN THE CASE OF STORM WATER, THE CREDIT BECOMES ONE MECHANISM OF, AGAIN, REINFORCING AND ENHANCING THE CONCEPT THAT IT IS A USER CHARGE AND IT IS NOT A TAX.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY THE PRIMARY DRIVER.
BUT THE SECONDARY DRIVERS ARE LIKE WHAT YOU SAID, DEPENDING ON WHAT ARE OTHER OBJECTIVES THEY WANNA DO.
FOR EXAMPLE, PHILADELPHIA DOES GIVE A VERY HIGH, HIGH DEGREE OF CREDIT THE COST.
PHILADELPHIA HAS A COMBINED CIVIL COMMUNITY.
THEY ALREADY HAVE A CONSENT ORDER WITH THE, UH, WITH, WITH THE, WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR REDUCING THE COMBINED SERVER OVERFLOW.
SO THEY'RE REALLY TRYING TO FOSTER, UH, WHAT THEY'RE CALLING GREEN ACRES, MEANING REDUCED IMPERVIOUS AREA.
AND THEY'VE FOUND THAT JUST BY DOING IT ON PUBLIC PROPERTIES IS VERY EXPENSIVE.
SO THEY ALSO NEED THE PRIVATE PROPERTIES TO CONTRIBUTE TO THAT.
SO IN THAT CASE, YES, DEFINITELY A REGULATORY REQUIREMENT PLAYS A ROLE.
UH, AND THIS DEALS WITH THE RATIO CREDIT, AND YOU TALK ABOUT PREVIOUS AREAS.
NOW PREVIOUS, UH, THERE'S A HIGH VOLUME OF, UH, OF, UH, OF, OF, UM, POROUS SPACE IN, IN PERVIOUS CONCRETE.
BUT THE, THE ISSUE THAT YOU RUN INTO, AND THIS IS WHAT YOU WOULD RUN INTO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, IS YOU HAVE TO GO OUT AND PERIODICALLY TEST IT AND CLEAN IT BECAUSE AS TIME GOES ON, THE POLLUTANTS PLUG IT AND THE SYSTEM DOESN'T FUNCTION.
THAT'S, SO YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE TO, IN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU HAVE TO PUT IN A PROGRAM THAT SAYS, OKAY, WE'RE GOING, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO, IN DOING IT, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO THROUGH AND CLEAN THE SYSTEM OUT, YOU KNOW, RUN A HYDROVAC THROUGH THERE, OR WATER WASH IT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, PROVIDE THE DOCUMENTATION AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO CONFIRM THAT THE SYSTEM IS PROPERLY FUNCTIONING.
AND THAT IS HOW THE CREDIT PROGRAM POLICIES WILL BE DEFINED.
AGAIN, UH, FOR EXAMPLE, UH, IF IT IS JUST A POOR AS PAYMENT, NOW SOME UTILITIES MAY NOT EVEN GIVE ANY CREDITS.
SO AGAIN, THEY TRIED TO STRUCTURE THE CREDIT PROGRAM THAT ONE, IT AS MANAGEABLE, IT IS NOT BURDENSOME.
AND TWO, IT IS REALLY FOR FUNCTIONAL BMPS SO THAT THEY CAN AUDIT.
AND IF THEY FIND THAT THE BMP IS NOT FUNCTIONING RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE A CLIENT WHERE, WHERE THEY DID AN AUDIT OF ALL THE CREDIT HOLDERS, THEY FOUND FOUR OF THEM BMPS WERE NOT FUNCTIONING.
SO THEY'RE FOLLOWING UP WITH THAT CUSTOMER TO SAY, YOU NEED YOU, YOU'RE GONNA BE GIVEN THIS MUCH OF TIME.
YOU NEED TO COME BACK INTO COMPLIANCE, OTHERWISE THE CREDIT PRO CREDITS WILL BE REVOKED.
SO YEAH, ALL OF THAT HAS TO BE ADMINISTERED.
I JUST, I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY.
THE, THE RATIO CREDIT WAS FOR REALLY MORE OF LARGER TRACKS, UH, PARTICULARLY SOME OF THE AGRICULTURAL TRACKS.
IT WASN'T MEANT FOR, UH, A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAD PERVIOUS PAVEMENT.
WELL, PER PAVEMENT HAS LIMITATIONS WHERE YOU CAN APPLY IT.
UH, NO, I, I I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS IT WAS, IT, IT'S MEANT FOR IF, IF YOU'VE GOT, YOU'VE GOT A HOUSE ON, ON 10 ACRES AND YOU'RE, THE HOUSE IS HUNDREDS OF FEET FROM, FROM EITHER PROPERTY LINE, OKAY, WHATEVER HITS THAT HOUSE IS VERY LIKELY
[02:10:01]
NOT EVEN GOING TO RUN OFF OF THE SITE.RIGHT? SO THAT'S WHERE THE, THE RATIO CREDIT IS A, IS A POSSIBILITY.
IT, IT WASN'T MEANT FOR A, UM, A, A PERVIOUS PAVEMENT SITUATION.
UH, COUPLE QUESTIONS LIKE, UH, FIRST QUESTION.
FIRST TERMS OF URBAN AREA MAPS, WAS THERE SOME REFERENCE? NO, ACTUALLY THE, THE MAPS WE USED REALLY ARE THE CITY HAD ALREADY HAD A VENDOR NEAR MAPS THAT COLLECT, THAT COLLECTED, CAPTURED IMPERVIOUS AREA, UH, DELINEATION SURFACE FEATURES.
AND THE CITY'S GIS, THE PARIS CITY PARISH GIS DEPARTMENT SPENT A YEAR TO CLEAN THROUGH THAT.
SO THEY WORKED THROUGH THE BUILDING LAYER, THEY WORKED THROUGH THE PARKING LOT LAYER, THEY MEASURED ALL OF THAT WAS CORRECTLY DELINEATED, SO THEY HAD TO DO A LOT OF CLEANUP.
AND THEN THE THIRD LAYER WAS THE SIDEWALKS AND DRIVE, UM, DRIVEWAYS AND SIDEWALKS.
THEY'RE GONNA WORKING THROUGH THAT RIGHT NOW.
AND THEN, UH, OUTSIDE OF THESE THREE, THEN EVERY, ANYTHING ELSE THAT WAS THERE WAS THEN CAPTURED AS OTHER IA.
SO THERE WERE THE FOUR LAYERS THAT REALLY THE CITY PARISH PROVIDED TO US IN ADDITION TO THE OVERALL, WHAT WE CALL THE PARCEL POLYGON.
SO WE THEN TOOK ALL OF THOSE FOUR IMPERVIOUS SURFACE FEATURES, AGGREGATED THEM INTO ONE COMPREHENSIVE IMPERVIOUS AREA FEATURE, AND THEN DO, DID THE GIS PROCESSING AGAINST THE, WHAT WE CALL THE PARCEL POLYGON LAYER TO THEN ATTRIBUTE THE IMPERVIOUS AREA FOR EACH PARCEL.
AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, IN INDEPENDENT OF THAT, THE, THE CITY PARISH ALSO HAS WHAT IS CALLED A LAND USE LAYER MAINTAINED BY THE CITY PARISH GIS TEAM.
SO THEY MAINTAIN THE LAND USE LAYER, AND THAT'S WHAT TELLS US WHETHER A PROPERTY IS A LOW DENSITY OR A MEDIUM DENSITY OR A HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, OR IS IT A GOVERNMENT OR IS A COMMERCIAL EDUCATION INSTITUTIONAL.
SO THEY HAVE CERTAIN LAND USES THEY'VE DELINEATED AND THEY'RE MAINTAINING THAT.
AND THAT'S HOW WE WERE ABLE TO, WHEN WE SHOWED YOU THE CATEGORIZATION OF PARCELS AS REFERENTIAL COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL, THAT'S THE LAND USE CLASSIFICATION.
WE USED TO SHOW THAT CATEGORIZATION.
UM, AND SO WE, WE USED, UM, MAP FOR AVAILABLE, OUR, UM, COREY CAN YOU USE THE MIC? THE PEOPLE AT HOME THAT ARE TEXTING ME, THEY CAN'T HEAR YOU.
AND SO I WAS JUST SAYING WE USED THE MOST RECENT MAPS AVAILABLE TO, TO DO OUR CALCULATION, UM, AND IT CAME UP TO, UH, $650,000 A YEAR SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE.
UH, AND THAT'S BEFORE WE ADD THE STORMWATER, UH, MASTER PLAN COMPONENTS.
AND SO IT'S LIKELY TO BE CLOSER TO, I DON'T KNOW, IT DEPEND ON HOW MUCH OF THAT PLAN WE WANT TO DO.
UH, IT MAY BE CLOSER TO A MILLION.
YOU, YOU'VE BROKEN MY HEART BY SAYING THAT THE CREDITS ONLY, UH, UM, IMPACT MAYBE 5%.
AND, AND I SAW THERE WERE A LOT OF CAPS, UH, ON IN TERMS OF MAXIMUM.
AND SO I WAS THINKING MAYBE I COULD GET A MILLION DOLLAR IN CREDITS AND, AND THEN NOT PAY ANYTHING, BUT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN.
MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, IN TERMS OF YOUR EXPERIENCE IN, IN OTHER AREAS, WE, WE'VE DONE A LITTLE RESEARCH NOT AS MUCH AS YOU'VE DONE, UH, IN TERMS OF HOW PARK SYSTEMS, UH, PARTNER WITH, WITH AGENCIES IN, IN ONE AREA.
CUZ CUZ YOU KNOW, MY THOUGHT AS A TAXPAYER NOW IS THAT, YOU KNOW, DOES IT MAKE SENSE FOR ME TO PAY MY TAX DOLLARS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE SHERIFF GETS AND, AND GIVE TO BRECK AND NOW BRETT HAS TO GIVE IT TO THE CITY AND YOU KNOW, HOW EFFICIENT IS THAT? UM, BUT YOU KNOW, WE OBVIOUSLY ARE DOING A LOT OF THEIR RETENTION PONDS, BIOSWELLS, I MEAN YOU, YOU NAME IT.
UM, AND, AND SO I'VE CLEVELAND METRO PARKS, WE REACHED OUT TO THEM, UM, AND, AND WHAT THEY DESCRIBED TO US IS THAT, FIRST OF ALL, WE REACHED OUT TO A COUPLE PEOPLE AND THEY WERE LIKE, YES, WE DO PAY THE FEE.
I FOUND OUT, YOU KNOW, THEY SAID, BUT PART OF WHAT THEY TALKED ABOUT IS WE PAY A FEE, WHATEVER WE PAY IS HELD IN SOME TRUST OR SOME DIFFERENT POT.
AND THEN THAT MONEY IS BASICALLY RETURNED OR AVAILABLE FOR THAT PARK SYSTEM TO USE TO DO GREEN INFRASTRUCTURE TO ULTIMATELY MEET THE OBJECTIVE.
AND SO I'M, I'M, I THINK WE ALL WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH, OKAY, BRE, YOU'RE CONTRIBUTING,
[02:15:01]
YOUR USER FEE IS $600,000.WE NEED TO SEE YOU DO $600,000 WORTH OF WORK, UH, THAT EITHER WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO.
UH, AND SO THAT TO ME WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE.
BUT I JUST WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU IN TERMS OF EXPERIENCE, UH, HOW THOSE SORT OF THINGS, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A CREDIT PROGRAM IS SORT OF WHERE WE WOULD FALL.
MAYBE, MAYBE WE WOULD, BUT I'M THINKING OF SOMETHING ON A LARGER SCALE TO WHERE, UM, SINCE WE ARE ALREADY DOING THESE TYPE OF PROJECTS TO MANAGE STORMWATER, MAKE IT CLEANER, WE, WE JUST HAD A MAJOR MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR PROJECT AT THE ZOO WHERE WE SEPARATED STORM AND SEWER.
I GOTTA GET MORE THAN A 10% CREDIT FOR THAT.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? AND SO, UH, JUST SHARE SOME OF YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THAT.
SO, SO THE FIRST ONE, UM, WHEN I SAID THE TOTAL DOLLARS REDUCED BECAUSE OF CREDITS RELATIVE TO THE TOTAL REVENUE REQUIREMENT, I THINK TO THE QUESTION THE GENTLEMAN WAS ASKING WAS HOLISTICALLY PROGRAM THAT'S NOT INDIVIDUAL YOUR PROPERTY.
SO TYPICALLY THE MAXIMUM CREDITS WE SEE FOR THOSE UTILITIES THAT DO HAVE A CREDIT PROGRAM, THE MAXIMUM CREDITS THEY GIVE IS UP SOMEWHERE IN THE RANGE OF 30 TO 50%.
PHILADELPHIA BEING AN EXCEPTION, WHERE THEY, THEY'VE GONE AS HIGH AS, YOU KNOW, 80% FOR THE REASONS THAT I STATED.
SO IF THERE ARE PARK PROPERTIES THAT ARE REALLY MEETING ALL THE REQUIREMENTS, THEN IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THERE ARE SOME PARK PROPERTIES, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE IN SOME CASES WHERE IT MIGHT BE EVEN BE GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND.
AGAIN, DEPENDING ON HOW WE STRUCTURE THE POLICY, THERE ARE SOME POOR PROPERTIES THAT MAKE, GET UP TO 50% STORMWATER CHARGE REDUCTION.
THE OTHER QUESTION THAT YOU WERE ASKING ABOUT IS IF MONEY IS RAISED FROM THE PROPERTIES, UH, FOR EXAMPLE THE REC PROPERTIES FOR STORMWATER USAGE CHARGE BASED ON INFORMATION CITY, I CHARGE WHETHER THAT MONEY SHOULD BE SET ASIDE IN SOME KIND OF AN ESCROW TO BE USED ONLY FOR PARKS.
AGAIN, THE REASON WHY THIS IS BEING COLLECTED IS VERY DIFFERENT.
THIS IS FOR THE OVERALL MANAGEMENT OF THE CITY WHERE THE CITY PARISH HAS TO MEET COMPLIANCE AND DRAINAGE CONVEYANCE AND ALL OF THAT.
SO PARK BEING A REAL PROPERTY BECOMES AN INTEGRAL PART OF THAT.
SO THAT IS WHY FROM MY EXPERIENCE, IT'S NOT THAT UTILITIES COLLECT THE STORMWATER CHARGE AND THEN REALLY SET IT ASIDE BACK FOR THE PARKS.
PARKS IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE STORMWATER PROGRAM LIKE ANY OTHER PROPERTY AND LIKE ANY OTHER PROPERTY, UM, IF THE PROPERTY HAS CREDITS, THEN THEY DO GET CREDITS.
UM, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON HOW THEY MEET THAT, IN OTHER WORDS, THEY'RE TREATED ON PAR WITH ANY OTHER PROPERTY.
NOW IN VERY EX EXTRAORDINARY SITUATIONS, WHICH I DO NOT KNOW THAT APPLIES TO YOUR ENVIRONMENT.
SO I CAN GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE THAT I'M AWARE OF.
FOR EXAMPLE, PHILADELPHIA HAS AN EXTENSIVE PARK SYSTEM.
IT'S CALLED A FAIRMOUNT PARK SYSTEM.
IT'S RIGHT ALONG THE SCHU RIVER.
AND IT, IT DOES MUCH MORE THAN A PARK.
IT, IT'S REALLY A COMPLETE PUBLIC BENEFIT STORMWATER MANAGEMENT KIND OF AN AREA.
SO IN THAT SITUATION THAT FAIRMOUNT PARK SYSTEM WAS ACTUALLY EXEMPTED FROM THE STORMWATER CHARGE PURPOSE BECAUSE THAT IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT ITSELF.
SO AGAIN, THESE ARE SOMETHING THAT MAY HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT A LITTLE MORE CLOSELY, BUT THE MAIN DECISION IS WHETHER YOU'RE EVEN GOING IN THE DIRECTION OF A, OF CHARGE AND, AND HOW IT IS ALL BEING DONE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? WELL, I I WOULD BE REMISS IF LIKE CORY, I DIDN'T SAY AND THE TWO ENTITIES THAT ARE PART OF THE PLAN THAT SUBMITTED LSU IN SOUTHERN, HOW WOULD YOU PROPOSE THAT OUR CREDITS WORK? CUZ WE KIND OF RAN OUR ANALYSIS AND, AND I GUESS THAT WE'D BE ASKING FOR BUDGET AUTHORITY FROM THE STATE TO PAY THE CITY OF BATON ROUGE IN ESSENCE, RIGHT? AS WITH THE STATE OF LOUISIANA ON ALL OF DOWNTOWN.
BUT THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, SHIFTING REVENUES FROM THE STATE GENERAL FUND BACK TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT THROUGH AN APPROPRIATION TO LSU AND SOUTHERN AND B RCC AND STATE GOVERNMENT TO PAY FOR THIS.
SO HOW WOULD YOU, AND WE ALL PAY FOR OUR OWN, AT LEAST LSU, WE PAY FOR ALL OF OUR OWN STORMWATER MITIGATION CUZ THE CITY DOESN'T GIVE US ANY MONEY FOR THAT.
SO SO IT'S NOT PECULIAR TO LSU NOW, RIGHT? WE JUST HAVE A LOT MORE LAND THAN MOST DEVELOPERS.
SO YEAH, NO, I MEAN THAT, THAT WAS THE THOUGHT IN, IN OPENING UP THE, THE EDUCATION CREDIT TO ANY, I MEAN NOT, AGAIN, GOING BACK TO LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE THE
[02:20:01]
ZOO AND DIFFERENT THINGS THAT YOU COULD DO AT ALL YOUR DIFFERENT PARKS COULD, COULD CERTAINLY FALL WITHIN THE, THE EDUCATION CREDIT IF, IF THE THE COMMITTEE CHOOSES TO, TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE THE EDUCATION CREDIT.UM, IT, IT, THE, THE UNIVERSITIES, THE THE SCHOOLS, IT IT, IT OPENS THE DOOR FOR ALL OF THOSE, THOSE ENTITIES TO PROPOSE SOMETHING.
AND AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S FOR THE WHOEVER, IT'S FOR THE USER TO COME TO US AND SAY, HEY, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DOING.
WE'RE, WE'RE APPLYING FOR OUR CREDIT AND THEN WE, WE REVIEW IT.
SO WE DON'T, WE WOULDN'T GO OUT, WE WOULDN'T APPROACH YOU GUYS AND SAY, HEY, WE THINK YOU OUGHT TO HAVE CREDIT.
BUT YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD GO THROUGH THESE AND, AND I WOULD EVEN SAY THAT JUST, JUST MY, I HAVEN'T RUN ANY NUMBERS.
BUT I WOULD EVEN, MY, MY THOUGHT WOULD ALSO BE THAT YOU, YOU PROBABLY COULD QUALIFY FOR SOME OF THESE OTHERS AS WELL, CUZ I, YOU'RE, YOU'RE IMPERVIOUS AND I'M TALKING ABOUT BRETT SPECIFICALLY IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, BUT YOU, YOU'VE GOT SOME LAW, YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF ACREAGE WITH THE, THE IMP THE IMPERVIOUS AREA IN COMPARISON TO THE ACREAGE IS IT'S RELATIVELY SMALL, RIGHT? IN A LOT OF CASES AND IN, IN A LOT OF CASES YOU'VE GOT, WHETHER IT'S SWAMPS OR BIO UH, BIOSWALES OR OR RETENTION PONDS OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.
AND IT COULD BE THAT YOU RUN THE NUMBERS AND YOU'RE RETAINING MORE THAN WHAT YOU NEED TO BE BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT YOU, YOU JUST DON'T HAVE THE IMPERVIOUS AREA THERE.
SOME OF THAT I, I IMAGINE IS JUST AS MUCH AESTHETICS OR MORE AESTHETICS THAN IT IS RETENTION, RIGHT.
THAT YOU COULD, BUT THE QUESTION COMES POTENTIALLY MEET SOME OF THOSE.
BUT YOU KNOW, EVEN IF WE, EVEN IF WE MAX OUT ON EVERY CREDIT THAT'S AVAILABLE, THERE'S, WE'RE STILL GONNA PAY SOMETHING UNDERSTOOD.
SO THAT YES, YOU KNOW, WE STILL GET BACK TO MOVING TAX DOLLARS.
AND, AND QUITE FOR, AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHY WE WANTED ALL OF YOU GUYS AT THE TABLE CUZ WE KNEW, UM, AND WE, WE'VE SPOKEN TO WHEN KEN DAWSON AS WELL, I MEAN I THINK HIS, UM, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT, WHAT LEVEL OF SERVICE IT WAS AT, BUT ONE OF THEM WAS, IT WAS WELL INTO THE SIX FIGURES AS WELL.
SO, UM, BUT I, I DON'T, I I UNDERSTAND THE, THE CONCERN AND IT'S A, IT'S A CONCERN FOR, FOR, FOR EVERYBODY HERE.
UM, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, EVEN WHETHER IT'S THE SCHOOLS.
I MEAN, AGAIN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, YOU LOOK AT A SCHOOL, IT'S A BUNCH OF BUILDINGS, IT'S A BIG PARKING LOT.
IT'S, UH, YOU GOT, IF YOU GOT A A STADIUM, YOU GOT, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST, YOU GOT A, YOU GOT A LOT OF IMPERVIOUS AREA, RIGHT? CHURCHES ARE THE SAME WAY A CHURCH, UH, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THEY'VE GOT SOME, SOME GREEN SPACE, BUT THEY GOT A BIG BUILDING AND A AND AN EVEN BIGGER PARKING LOT.
SO, UM, I GUESS UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER OTHER, OTHER THAN IT, IT, IT IS, IT IS SOMETHING TO BE CONSIDERED.
AND AGAIN, THAT THAT'S WHY WE'RE WE, WE WANT EVERYBODY TO BE HERE AND BE A PART OF THE CONVERSATION SO THAT WE CAN, WE CAN DISCUSS THAT.
I THINK TWO THINGS ON THAT, JUST ONE, UM, WHEN IT, WHEN THE METAPHOR IS USED THAT THIS IS LIKE YOUR WATER UTILITY IS THAT IT RUNS UP AGAINST THIS PROBLEM THAT IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE THAT WHEN YOU'RE THE PARTS SYSTEM AND YOUR LSU AND YOU'RE LIKE, YEAH, BUT THAT DOESN'T FEEL THE SAME AS ME USING WATER WHEN I USE OUR STORMWATER DRAINAGE SYSTEM.
SO I THINK WE'RE ALL STILL GRAPPLING WITH HOW DIFFERENT THAT NOT THAT NOTION IS THAT THIS IS A USER FEE FOR SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN PROVIDED FOR FREE PREVIOUSLY AND WAS BUILT AND INVESTED IN TO GET IT TO THAT POINT.
AND THERE'S AN EXPENSE FOR MAINTENANCE THAT WE ALL ARE BEING ASKED TO ABSORB.
AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE CHALLENGE HERE IS THAT THIS IS, THAT IS JUST DOESN'T, DOESN'T SIT RIGHT OR FEEL, FEEL YET UH, RATIONAL.
UM, SO THAT'S ONE THING TOO IS WE WERE JUST SAYING I THINK THERE IS A ATTRACTIVENESS TO NOT HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT CREDITS WHEN YOU HAVE A FLAT FEE IF A FLAT FEE IS FEASIBLE CUZ IT DOESN'T HAVE THAT KIND OF BUREAUCRATIC COMPLICATION OF CREDITS.
AND IT MAY ALSO BE THAT IT SORT OF SPREADS IT OUT WITH SOME EVENNESS SOMEWHAT DEPENDING ON WHAT THOSE LEVELS LOOK LIKE WHEN WE SEE THAT ANALYSIS NEXT WEEK.
BUT IT, YEAH, IT IS STILL GOING TO COME WITH A, A PRICE, SORRY,
AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK WE'RE ALL STRUGGLING WITH IS THAT THAT'S THE PRICE OF BOTH FLOOD MITIGATION
[02:25:02]
AND MAINTENANCE AND WHAT, TO WHAT LARRY SAID EARLIER, YOU GET ONE SHOT TO GET IT RIGHT AND IT'S GONNA BE UGLY AND IT IS GONNA TAKE A LOT IN EDUCATION TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS IS.AND I THINK IT'S GONNA BE ODD TO GO AND SAY THAT TO THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF LOUISIANA THAT HEY, SORRY YOU HAD TO, YOU KNOW, ADD AT THIS ADDITIONAL EXPENSE, BUT THIS IS, Y'ALL HAVE IMPERVIOUS AREA IN AN AREA OF OUR CITY, RIGHT? AND, AND THAT, AND TO, TO ADD TO THAT, UM, CUZ WE, WE DID LOOK AT, WE, WE WERE, WE WERE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT THINGS CUZ ESPECIALLY, UM, YOU KNOW, BRAC I THINK IT'S ABOUT TO BE A CO PERMITEE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT LSU AND SOUTHERN WHO ARE CO PERMITEES.
IT'S LIKE, ALL RIGHT, THEY ARE A CO PERMITEE, THEY'VE GOT THEIR OWN SYSTEM, BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT ULTIMATELY ENDS UP IN OUR SYSTEM AND THAT, SO WE DID THINK ABOUT THAT, BUT, AND I, AND I GET IT, I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM.
IT IS LIKE, HEY, I GOT, I'VE GOT MY OWN INFRASTRUCTURE TO MAINTAIN AS WELL.
BUT I GUESS AS MR. KNAPP PUT, YOU KNOW, ONE, SO SEWER FOR INSTANCE, YOU HAVE YOUR OWN SEWER SYSTEM WITHIN LSU, BUT THE SEWER ULTIMATELY COMES TO ROSCOE AND THEN WE ULTIMATELY, WE TAKE IT FROM THERE.
THERE'S A, THE PUMP STATION THAT'S JUST OUTSIDE OF, UH, IT'S ACTUALLY, I GUESS IT'S TECHNICALLY ON LSU CAMPUS, BUT WE WE'VE GOT A BIG PUMP STATION RIGHT THERE AND THEN THAT THAT SENDS IT TO, TO THE SOUTH PLAN, RIGHT? AND THEN WE, WE TREAT IT FROM THERE.
SO EVEN THOUGH THE, AND THEN THE SAME THING WITH, WITH SOUTHERN, ALL THE SEWER, THE SANITARY SEWER ON, ON THEIR PROPERTY IS, IS PRIVATELY MAINTAINED.
THEY MAINTAIN THE COLLECTION SYSTEM, THEY MAINTAIN THE LITTLE PUMP STATIONS, BUT THEN THEY PUMP IT OVER TO US AT THE NORTH PLANT.
SO, SO THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD ANALOGY.
UM, IS THAT IT ULTIMATELY DOES COME TO US.
AGAIN, I KNOW THAT'S NOT, UM, WHEN, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT POTENTIALLY SIX FIGURES, I KNOW THAT'S NOT THE ANSWER.
THAT HOW DO THEY, HOW DO, HOW DO THEY PAY FOR THAT SERVICE SEWER, WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED IS, IS THERE ANY PAYING ATTENTION CHANGE? IT'S A USER FEE.
THEY, SO THEY'RE CURRENTLY PAYING A USER FEE.
THEY, THEY CURRENTLY, WHAT YOU'RE PROCESSING AT THE DIFFERENT PLANTS YOU JUST DESCRIBED, THEY YES.
THEY, AND I IMAGINE THAT USER FEE IS SOMEHOW CREDITED BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING PART OF THE WORK, RIGHT? YOU'RE NOT DOING A HUNDRED PERCENT OF IT, YOU'RE DOING 50% OF IT, RIGHT.
SO IS THERE SOME SORT OF CREDIT OR SOME SORT OF MAYBE LESSER CHARGE CHARGE? THE, THE UNIVERSITIES ARE CALCULATED DIFFERENTLY THAN OTHER ENTITIES JUST BECAUSE OF THE, FOR, FOR MULTIPLE REASONS? UH, PARTIALLY JUST BECAUSE OF, UM, WE CAN'T, WE, WE ALMOST, WE HAVE TO METER THEM ESSENTIALLY INSTEAD OF LIKE THEY'VE GOT, UH, IRRIGATION AND ALL THIS OTHER CO AND SO WE CAN'T GO BASED OFF OF CONSUMPTION LIKE WE WOULD AT, AT A RESIDENCE.
SO IT IS HANDLED DIFFERENTLY, RIGHT, BASED ON WHAT WE'VE, WHAT WE'VE STUDIED TO BE THE ACTUAL SEWER USE VERSUS WHAT'S, WHAT THEIR WATER CONSUMPTION IS AND THE THEIR, AND THEY'RE, THEY BOTH ARE HANDLED LS, U'S GOT THE, THE CAMPUS HERE.
IT'S GOT A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT WAYS IT CAN GET ENTIRE SYSTEM.
ANOTHER QUESTION, UM, AND, AND JUST PIGGYBACKING OFF THE CONVERSATION, ADAM'S COMMENTS REGARDING JUST GETTING USED TO UTILITY.
UM, AND SO IF I DON'T PAY MY WATER TO CUT THE WATER OFF, IF I DON'T PAY THE ELECTRICITY, CUT THE ELECTRICITY OFF, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I DON'T PAY THAT SIX FIGURE BILL? NOT ME, SOMEBODY ELSE, WHEN THEY DON'T PAY THAT SIX FIGURE BILL? WELL, THE, UH, WITH THE PROPERTY TAX, THAT'S WHY WE WERE PUTTING IT ON THE PROPERTY TAX BILL BECAUSE IT, IT INCREASES THE, THE COLLECTION RATE OF IT SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE THOSE ISSUES.
BUT I GUESS IT WOULD, IT'D BE THE SAME AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOU CAN'T PARTIALLY PAY YOUR PROPERTY TAX BILL.
YOU EITHER PAY IT OR YOU DON'T.
SO IT WOULD, WHATEVER WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU, YOU CAN PAY A PORTION UNDER PROTEST AND THAT PORTION IN THE COURT, YOU CAN PAY A PORTION IF, IF YOU DISPUTE A PORTION OF THE PROPERTY TAXES, YOU HAVE TO WRITE A SEPARATE CHECK FOR THAT AND THEN IT CAN THEN SUIT COULD BE FILED, BUT YOU HAVE TO DO IT WITHIN 30 DAYS.
[02:30:01]
YES, YOU CAN HAVE THAT MONEY SEGREGATED AND POTENTIALLY FIGHT THAT BATTLE.JUST THE FINAL COMMENT BEFORE I HAVE TO PICK MY DAUGHTER UP FROM SUMMER CAMP.
BREAK CAMP, OF COURSE
AND SO WHAT I WOULD ENCOURAGE, UM, BECAUSE IF, IF, IF, IF, IF, IF BRECK AND OTHERS WERE MORE IN COMPLIANCE, WE WOULDN'T NEED AS MUCH MONEY TO ACCOMPLISH THE GOAL.
AND SO I WANT TO JUST ENCOURAGE, UH, MORE CONVERSATION ABOUT ACCOMPLISHING THE GOAL.
MEANING, HEY, BRE, IF YOU DID THIS IN YOUR PARK, YOU COULD HELP US, YOU KNOW, REDUCE FLOOD RISK, YOU CAN HELP US CLEAN THE WATER AND, AND, AND, AND SO VERSUS RIGHT, JUST GIMME A CHECK BECAUSE WE NEED TO DO THESE THINGS.
AND SO, UM, IF, IF WE CAN HAVE MORE CONVERSATIONS LIKE THAT, I, I, I THINK THAT'S ULTIMATELY WILL BE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE TAXPAYER VERSUS, UM, JUST MOVING TAXPAYER DOLLARS AROUND.
SO, SO I KNOW WE, WE OWE YOU GUYS SOME INFORMATION ON THE FUNDING MECHANISM, RIGHT? WHICH WILL POTENTIALLY DRIVE THE CREDIT DISCUSSION, RIGHT? RIGHT.
ARE THERE, NOW WITH THAT BEING SAID, ARE ARE THERE ANY CREDITS THAT YOU SEE HERE THAT'S JUST, YEAH, I DON'T WANNA MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT ONE.
OR, OR ARE THERE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS FROM A CREDIT STANDPOINT? YES MA'AM.
I'M JUST GONNA, HAVING ADMINISTERED TAX CREDITS, YOU NEED TO DECLARE WHETHER THESE CREDITS ARE STACKABLE, MEANING YOU CAN EARN SO THAT YOU WOULD ELIMINATE A HUNDRED PERCENT OF YOUR LIABILITY IF YOU HAD ENOUGH CREDITS, IF THERE'S A MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF CREDIT YOU CAN REACH.
SO AS WE TALKED ABOUT WHETHER WE'RE GONNA HAVE FOUR OR FIVE OR, AND I THINK THE INITIAL PRESENTATION WAS THAT MOST PLACES DON'T HAVE ALL OF THE CREDITS, BUT STACKABILITY OF THE CREDITS OR WHETHER IF YOU TAKE THIS CREDIT, YOU DON'T GET TO TAKE ANOTHER CREDIT THAT NEEDS TO BE A PART OF THE CONVERSATION.
YEAH, AND I, I THINK THE INITIAL THOUGHT WITH THAT WAS THAT THEY WOULD, THERE WOULD BE A MAXIMUM.
RIGHT, BECAUSE IF, IF YOU DO GO THE IMPER FULLY THE IMPERVIOUS AREA, EVERYBODY'S INDIVIDUALLY CALCULATED, WELL THEN YOU'VE GOT TO, THE MORE CREDITS YOU GIVE, SOMEBODY ELSE HAS TO PAY FOR THAT, RIGHT? YES.
SO YES, YOU HAVE TO THAT, BUT THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE A THOUGHT.
BUT, UH, I, IS THERE A, UM, IF THERE A RECOMMENDATION ON THAT WHAT THE LIMIT WOULD BE, IF ANYTHING? AND LET ME, THE INTENT, I'LL JUST SAY IT THAT WAY.
THE INTENT IS THAT YOU COULD, THEY WOULD BE STACKABLE.
SO THAT WE WEREN'T SAYING YOU CAN ONLY DO ONE.
UM, ACTUALLY ON THE SLIDE, UM, WHERE A UTILITY CAN GET ONE OR MORE CREDIT, A UTILITY CAN GET ONE OR MORE CREDITS AND UP TO THE MAXIMUM OF EACH CREDIT.
BUT THEN THERE'LL ALSO BE AN OVERALL AGGREGATE TYPICALLY THAT IS PUT ON THE CREDIT.
SO LET'S SAY SOMEBODY QUALIFIES FOR QUALIFY TYPES OF CREDITS, IT'LL BE CALCULATED.
AND THEN IF THEY MEET THE TOTAL AGGREGATE MAXIMUM CREDIT THAT IS DEFINED, OR IF THEY, THE SUM OF THE CREDITS BECOMES HIGHER THAN THE TOTAL AGGREGATE, THEN THE AGGREGATE CREDIT WILL APPLY.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE AGGREGATE CREDIT MAXIMUM IS DEFINED IN THE POLICY AS 50% AND THE SUM OF ALL THE CREDITS THAT IS ASSIGNED TO A PROPERTY BECOMES 60%, THEN YOU WILL GET THE 50%.
BUT IT IS, IT IS NEVER DESIGNED WHERE SOMEBODY CAN GET ONLY ONE CREDIT AND NOT ANOTHER CREDIT.
YOU ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT? I THINK WE PROBABLY RECOMMEND, DON'T YOU THINK WE NEED TO RELY ON BLACK AND VEATCH TO GIVE US A POTENTIAL PROPOSAL? I MEAN, THEY ARE THE EXPERTS IN THIS.
THEY'VE SEEN WHAT'S HAD MOST RESISTANCE, I THINK.
I THINK THEY'RE THE PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE TO KIND OF RELY UPON AND KNOWS WHAT WORKS, WHAT DOESN'T WORK,
[02:35:01]
WHAT COULD POTENTIALLY SOLVE, UH, PRACTIC ISSUE, LSU ISSUE, SOUTHERN'S ISSUE, SCHOOL BOARDS ISSUED, YOU KNOW, REGARDING THE CREDITS.CREDITS, I MEAN, IS THERE, THIS IS WHAT WE FOUND THAT THESE LOCALES HAVE WORKED.
THESE ARE THE ONES THAT HAD THE MOST RESISTANCE.
THESE ARE THE ONES THAT BEEN MOST PROBLEMATIC.
I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE BLACK AND VEATCH GIVE US A POTENTIAL PROPOSAL.
I'M, I'M SORRY, I HAVE ONE MORE COMMENT.
AND, AND IT'S REGARDING THE, UH, THE FLAT FEE VERSUS THE IMPERVIOUS AREA FEE.
AND SO ALL FOR SIMPLIFICATION, UM, BUT YOU KNOW, UH, WE, I DON'T KNOW IF WE ALL ARE, ARE SAFE HEARING THAT THE, THE EQUITABLE, UM, UM, IMPACT OF THAT FLAT FEE AND THEN MOVING FORWARD SAYING WE CHOSE SIMPLIFICATION OVER EQUITY.
SO I, I JUST WANT, AND AGAIN, THAT'S HOW IT'S GOING TO BE.
I'M NOT SAYING ANYBODY'S DOING IT, I'M JUST SAYING I JUST WANT THAT TO BE TOP OF MIND OR BACK OF MIND OR LET'S JUST BE MINDFUL OF THAT.
SO WE'RE GONNA GIVE YOU SOME MORE INFORMATION THAT WILL ON THE FUNDING MECHANISM, THAT DEPENDING ON THE METHOD THAT'S CHOSEN, WILL DRIVE THE, I THINK, FURTHER DRIVE THE CREDIT PROGRAM IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE DO.
MY, MY ONLY OTHER QUESTION WOULD BE, SO I THINK IT'S GREAT THAT WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO MEET, UM, I DON'T THINK THERE ARE ENOUGH PEOPLE HERE.
DO WE HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE HERE TO YEAH, DO WE HAVE A QUORUM? SO THE, I THINK THE WAY WE ULTIMATELY, THE WAY IT WAS WAS THAT WHOEVER'S HERE AT THE MOMENT, YOU THEN HAVE A MAJORITY OF WHOEVER IS HERE.
WAS THE WAY WE, WE ULTIMATELY DID IT.
I DON'T, I DON'T THINK WE NEED ANYTHING OTHER THAN I, I GUESS JUST THE, SO WE WILL HAVE FUTURE MEETINGS.
I I IS THERE A, UM, A FREQUENCY THAT WE'D LIKE TO DISCUSS? IS IT NECESSARY TO WAIT AN ENTIRE MONTH BEFORE WE MEET AGAIN? IS THAT THAT MUCH TIME IT TAKES TO GET THE INFORMATION OR IS THAT, I I THINK ON THE, UH, ON THAT IMMEDIATE ITEM, ON THE, ON THE FUNDING MECHANISM ITEM, I DON'T THINK THAT, I MEAN THERE, THERE'S A, A LOT OF DIFFERENT POSSIBILITIES, BUT NO, IT DOESN'T TAKE THAT LONG TO PUT IT TOGETHER.
IT, IT'S REALLY JUST GETTING EVERYBODY HERE.
AND I WAS EVEN, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THIS IS JUST A, I'M THINKING OUT LOUD.
I, I AM, I AM IN NO WAY TRYING TO, UH, NOT HAVE THE MEETINGS VIDEOED OR ANYTHING ELSE, BUT I, I'M ALSO NOT AT, AT LEAST THINKING OF MAYBE A LESS FORMAL MEETING.
LIKE DO WE, I MEAN THIS IS ALL GOOD AND EVERYTHING, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A POSSIBILITY THAT WE CAN EXPLORE, ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE GONNA MAYBE HAVE A, AN HOUR LONG CONVERSATION ON, ON A CERTAIN THING.
I DON'T KNOW HOW Y'ALL FEEL ABOUT THAT, BUT I DO, I APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S TIME AND IT TAKES A LOT OF EFFORT TO GET 20 PEOPLE IN A ROOM AND THEN PREPARE TO HAVE 20 PEOPLE IN A ROOM TO, TO TALK ABOUT THINGS.
EVERYBODY'S TIME IS, IS VALUABLE.
SO, AND AGAIN, I'M NOT TRYING TO NOT HAVE THEM OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, IT'S JUST MORE OF BEING MINDFUL OF EVERYONE'S SCHEDULES.
I THINK THERE, AND I ALSO THINK THERE'S GOING TO PROBABLY BE SOME THAT ARE LIKE THAT ONE TOPIC.
I THINK IT COULD BE A, A RELATIVELY QUICK TOPIC.
I THINK THERE'S OTHER TOPICS IF, UH, UNDERS WHAT WAS SAID EARLIER THAT ARE GONNA BE ALMOST SOME, SOME PRETTY EXTENSIVE WORK SESSION.
UH, I'M THINKING THAT RATHER THAN HAVE GATHERING 20 PEOPLE IN ONE PLACE, WHICH IS PRETTY DIFFICULT, UH, FOR THINGS THAT DON'T REQUIRE A LOT OF DISCUSSION, COULD YOU SEND OUT THE INFORMATION BY EMAIL AND PERHAPS GET EMAILS BACK ON PEOPLE'S THOUGHTS AND THEN SEND A SUMMARY OF WHAT WAS DISCUSSED? I, I THINK WE CAN DEFINITE, WE
[02:40:01]
CAN AT LEAST HAVE SOME CONVERSATION BY EMAIL AND I'M GONNA CHECK WITH THE, WE, WE MAY HAVE TO RECONVENE TO, TO MAKE SOME OFFICIAL DECISIONS ON IT.BUT I LIKE YEAH, THAT THE FUNDING MECHANISM, YES, WE CAN SEND OUT A HANDFUL OF THINGS VIA EMAIL AND I THINK GET EVERYBODY'S THOUGHTS ON IT.
CONSIDERING NEXT MONTH IS JULY AND PEOPLE ARE, ARE IN, IN AND OUT, YOU KNOW, VACATIONS, HEAVY VACATION MONTH.
I DO THINK IT'D PROBABLY BE GOOD JUST TO SET A MEETING, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF JULY, YOU KNOW, SAME TIME SAME SAYING THAT CHANNEL SAYING THAT PLACE JULY.
SO I THINK WE'RE THE FOURTH THURSDAY OF THE MONTH.
IS THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE? THIRD, FOURTH? I THINK YOU'VE BEEN THE THIRD THURSDAY, RIGHT? THIRD THURSDAY THE THIRD OR THE FOURTH? FOURTH.
I THINK IT JUST SO HAPPENED THAT, UM, THIS WAS A, THE THURSDAY WAS THE FIRST DAY OF THE MONTH.
FOURTH, IT, IT, WE WERE DOING THE FOURTH THURSDAY.
AND WE'LL, WE'LL SEND SOME, SOME INFORMATION OUT ON, ON FUNDING MECHANISMS. OKAY.
MAY I HAVE A, CAN I HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN? GOT IT.